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Thread: Psac west - 2019

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by CALUPA69 View Post
    In 2008, six years after going coed, SHU broke down 1115 women to 550 men. 2019 stats show 1073 women to 603 men. Whatever method they're using, it seems to be coming up short both in total enrollment and W/M ratio. In fact, from the outside, it would appear that they're simply not trying. If they're making a good faith effort, they really should question their process.
    What if Seton Hill’s best candidates are women?

    I’m for the best person, candidate, applicant, etc., being afforded the job, admission to a school, spot on the team, etc. I’m for the best person regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

    If 75% of Seton Hill’s best applicants every year are female, why should they lower their admissions standards to allow lesser qualified male applicants into the school when many more deserving female applicants are denied because of a “quota” issue? Seton Hill is a private institution. They are free to admit and deny applicants as the see fit.


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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    What if Seton Hill’s best candidates are women?

    I’m for the best person, candidate, applicant, etc., being afforded the job, admission to a school, spot on the team, etc. I’m for the best person regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

    If 75% of Seton Hill’s best applicants every year are female, why should they lower their admissions standards to allow lesser qualified male applicants into the school when many more deserving female applicants are denied because of a “quota” issue? Seton Hill is a private institution. They are free to admit and deny applicants as the see fit.


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    They should definitely take the best according to the school standard. But you can also make a concerted effort to speak to young men who are highly qualified AND top notch athletes. They made the decision to go coed in order to expand the enrollment. If they want to be competitive on say the MERCYHURST or GANNON level, they'll have to go the extra mile in pumping the interest of academically qualified, athletic young men to fill their rosters. What lesson is being taught by having a football program going 26-96. They have the resources to correct the problem, if they have the will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALUPA69 View Post
    They should definitely take the best according to the school standard. But you can also make a concerted effort to speak to young men who are highly qualified AND top notch athletes. They made the decision to go coed in order to expand the enrollment. If they want to be competitive on say the MERCYHURST or GANNON level, they'll have to go the extra mile in pumping the interest of academically qualified, athletic young men to fill their rosters. What lesson is being taught by having a football program going 26-96. They have the resources to correct the problem, if they have the will.

    You’re trying to get pretty deep with talking about lessons that a football program is trying to teach. I would argue that the young men that play football at schools like Seton Hill, Cheyney, Millersville, etc., learn more about commitment and staying true and dedicated to something that’s important to you then those that play at winning programs. Most just don’t see it that way because they don’t get the accolades.

    There’s a lot of bad football programs out there at all levels of college ball. I would imagine there’s many more schools that use football as a tool for other means in the manner that Seton Hill does.


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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    You’re trying to get pretty deep with talking about lessons that a football program is trying to teach. I would argue that the young men that play football at schools like Seton Hill, Cheyney, Millersville, etc., learn more about commitment and staying true and dedicated to something that’s important to you then those that play at winning programs. Most just don’t see it that way because they don’t get the accolades.

    There’s a lot of bad football programs out there at all levels of college ball. I would imagine there’s many more schools that use football as a tool for other means in the manner that Seton Hill does.


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    We basically agree that SHU is using football as a means to increase enrollment. What I'm saying is that, so far, that plan has not worked. Their enrollment is static for 12 years and their football team stinks. Given the advantages of being a private school it seems to me that they could do much better. Not that I really want another competitive program in the West.

  5. #165

    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by CALUPA69 View Post
    We basically agree that SHU is using football as a means to increase enrollment. What I'm saying is that, so far, that plan has not worked. Their enrollment is static for 12 years and their football team stinks. Given the advantages of being a private school it seems to me that they could do much better. Not that I really want another competitive program in the West.
    Keep in mind many schools would be elated to have their enrollment static for the past 12 years. Most of our members are in Titanic mode.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALUPA69 View Post
    We basically agree that SHU is using football as a means to increase enrollment. What I'm saying is that, so far, that plan has not worked. Their enrollment is static for 12 years and their football team stinks. Given the advantages of being a private school it seems to me that they could do much better. Not that I really want another competitive program in the West.
    We are to a point, yes.

    Perhaps they aren’t trying to grow their enrollment? I think my stance is that they aren’t using football to boost total enrollment, but to have more male students on campus as part of that enrollment figure.

    I don’t know the ins and outs of their campus. If they don’t have room to build more housing on campus, the goal probably wouldn’t be to boost enrollment numbers. I also don’t know what percentage of their students live off campus and what percentage are commuters. I would venture to guess off campus housing options are limited, considering that SH is in a pretty nice section of Greensburg.

    I brought up the Last Chance U example a number of posts back. The coach at Independence Community College said that he’s a hero because he brings in students to fill beds that would’ve been empty if he didn’t recruit out of state football players to the school. He said, “I’m keep the lights one.”

    If a decent percentage of students commute and/or live off campus, and they are more attractive to local high school students that will likely commute, then Seton Hill needs athletics to fill housing on campus, regardless of if they win or not.

    I think the only thing where we differ is in the growth aspect. I think Seton Hill is likely achieving their goal of using athletics and football to bring students to the school that will stay on campus where without them, they would likely struggle to fill those rooms.


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  7. #167

    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    You’re trying to get pretty deep with talking about lessons that a football program is trying to teach. I would argue that the young men that play football at schools like Seton Hill, Cheyney, Millersville, etc., learn more about commitment and staying true and dedicated to something that’s important to you then those that play at winning programs. Most just don’t see it that way because they don’t get the accolades.

    There’s a lot of bad football programs out there at all levels of college ball. I would imagine there’s many more schools that use football as a tool for other means in the manner that Seton Hill does.


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    Almost every DIII football programs, with their 150 man rosters, exist to get students enrolled into their expensive private schools .......... its really not a secret. jus sayin

  8. Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    Seton Hill is a private institution. They are free to admit and deny applicants as the see fit.
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    You really think that?

  9. Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    Most smaller schools have football to boost male enrollment especially African American male enrollment. That shouldn't be a secret.

    Smaller schools wishing to transition from majority women to coed have built their plan on the back of athletics. That's not a secret either.
    Not talking about boosting African American enrollment. Talking about relying on FB/BB completely for it.

    Also, this conversation makes me wonder how they are in Title IX compliance with 67% females and a football program. They have 8 mens sports and 11 womens sports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    You really think that?

    100,000%

    Best applicants should get in regardless of what boxes they check on an application. I’m about performance driven results, not outcomes based policies.


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  11. #171

    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    100,000%

    Best applicants should get in regardless of what boxes they check on an application. I’m about performance driven results, not outcomes based policies.


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    Sounds good in theory. As you know it's not reality, however.

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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    Not talking about boosting African American enrollment. Talking about relying on FB/BB completely for it.

    Also, this conversation makes me wonder how they are in Title IX compliance with 67% females and a football program. They have 8 mens sports and 11 womens sports.
    Yeah I think they do.

    Well, Title IX is really only enforced when a complaint is filed. Maybe women are satisfied?

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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    Yeah I think they do.

    Well, Title IX is really only enforced when a complaint is filed. Maybe women are satisfied?
    Dude, you're married. You know that's not possible.

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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Horror Child View Post
    Dude, you're married. You know that's not possible.
    Priceless

  15. #175

    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    You’re trying to get pretty deep with talking about lessons that a football program is trying to teach. I would argue that the young men that play football at schools like Seton Hill, Cheyney, Millersville, etc., learn more about commitment and staying true and dedicated to something that’s important to you then those that play at winning programs. Most just don’t see it that way because they don’t get the accolades.

    There’s a lot of bad football programs out there at all levels of college ball. I would imagine there’s many more schools that use football as a tool for other means in the manner that Seton Hill does.


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    Let's keep in mind that having a 'decent' program at Seton Hill isn't impossible. They just made a horrendous hire with the last coach -- and then stuck with him way too long. The cupboard is completely bare. This new guy is taking on a massive rebuild which will take years (if he lasts).

    SH is 1-24 in its past 25 games (long win coming against Mercyhurst last season).

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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by CALUPA69 View Post
    In 2008, six years after going coed, SHU broke down 1115 women to 550 men. 2019 stats show 1073 women to 603 men. Whatever method they're using, it seems to be coming up short both in total enrollment and W/M ratio. In fact, from the outside, it would appear that they're simply not trying. If they're making a good faith effort, they really should question their process.
    I don't know. Using your enrolment numbers it seems that overall enrolment is up about 1% while male enrolment is up about 10%. In the difficult times colleges are operating in, moving any enrolment needle by 10% is pretty good.

  17. Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    Yeah I think they do.

    Well, Title IX is really only enforced when a complaint is filed. Maybe women are satisfied?
    Correct.

  18. Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    Seton Hill is a private institution. They are free to admit and deny applicants as the see fit.
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    Being a private institution has nothing to do with it. They can accept who they want as long as they don't discriminate. That is if they want to continue to receive fereral funding.

  19. #179

    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    I don't know. Using your enrolment numbers it seems that overall enrolment is up about 1% while male enrolment is up about 10%. In the difficult times colleges are operating in, moving any enrolment needle by 10% is pretty good.
    Thought the same thing. They are up 11 students in this example. Positive 11 students is a helluva lot better than negative 11 percent over that time.

    IUP and many others would love to be up 11 students over that period.

    Seton Hill isn't for everybody. It's basically a large high school. I have several friends who sent their kids there. They liked it a lot. Keep in mind their goal isn't to be a diploma factory.

    And, like Gannon and Mercyhurst, they certainly feel they are above the perceived lowly state schools.

  20. #180
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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    Being a private institution has nothing to do with it. They can accept who they want as long as they don't discriminate. That is if they want to continue to receive fereral funding.
    Are you suggesting Seton Hill discriminates who they accept and deny? Say what you want to say. In what manner is accepting the best and most qualified applicants for admission into a university discriminating?

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