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Thread: Psac west - 2019

  1. #121
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    Default Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    This is the Patriot League membership:

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    I know people that work at Seton Hill and they have a claim that their academics are much more rigorous than that of a regular PSAC school. I didn’t intend to ruffle feathers.

    But I would still hold true that even in non-athletic scenarios, Seton Hill is recruiting a much different student to their school than what most in the PSAC are.


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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    I know people that work at Seton Hill and they have a claim that their academics are much more rigorous than that of a regular PSAC school. I didn’t intend to ruffle feathers.

    But I would still hold true that even in non-athletic scenarios, Seton Hill is recruiting a much different student to their school than what most in the PSAC are.


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    As the smallest student body in the PSAC, they better use their $37.8M endowment to recruit more of those elite students before someone gets hurt. 1676 students is pretty lean to compete in this league.
    Last edited by CALUPA69; 08-12-2019 at 05:26 PM.

  3. #123

    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    I know people that work at Seton Hill and they have a claim that their academics are much more rigorous than that of a regular PSAC school. I didn’t intend to ruffle feathers.

    But I would still hold true that even in non-athletic scenarios, Seton Hill is recruiting a much different student to their school than what most in the PSAC are.


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    Lol ... we'll take anybody whose check clears these days.

  4. #124
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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by CALUPA69 View Post
    As the smallest student body in the PSAC, they better use their $37.8M endowment to recruit more of those elite students before someone gets hurt. 1676 students is pretty lean to compete in this league.
    Did you ever think that maybe the reason they have football is so that they can hit certain numbers? Fill the beds in on campus housing? Etc... Sometimes our views are skewed. Being the best football program isn't the goal of every university athletic department.

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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    As much as I want to agree with that, I don't think I can go there. Maybe some athletic departments strive for balance in the program ... but football is still the cash cow and the main draw across the board. Football success is very much their goal.

  6. #126

    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by jrshooter View Post
    As much as I want to agree with that, I don't think I can go there. Maybe some athletic departments strive for balance in the program ... but football is still the cash cow and the main draw across the board. Football success is very much their goal.
    In Seton Hill's case the 'cash cow' may be getting 85 males on campus paying tuition. The 87 fans they draw weekly sure aren't making them any money.

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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by jrshooter View Post
    As much as I want to agree with that, I don't think I can go there. Maybe some athletic departments strive for balance in the program ... but football is still the cash cow and the main draw across the board. Football success is very much their goal.
    I just fundamentally disagree.

    Evaluate Seton Hill's football program. They draw what, maybe 200 a game if they're lucky? Do you realize how much money simply trotting a team out there costs? And I'm not trying to sound like a jerk about that. I read an article last year that talked about the large number of universities that lose money by just having a football team every year. I'm sure the bottom line works out somehow, but football can't be profitable at Seton Hill. I don't see a scenario where Seton Hill is trying to win. And I doubt that's their goal either.

    I'm sure the new coach is excited, because hey.. He's a head ball coach and there's only so many of those jobs out there. I wish the guy the best of luck, but I'm not sure the commitment is there from the people signing his paychecks.

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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    Did you ever think that maybe the reason they have football is so that they can hit certain numbers? Fill the beds in on campus housing? Etc... Sometimes our views are skewed. Being the best football program isn't the goal of every university athletic department.
    In 2008 the SHU undergrad enrollment was 1666. In 2019 it is 1676. I'd say they need a new plan, perhaps easing some of their academic requirements. There are plenty of C+ students that, given the chance, have performed well in both the classroom and the field. Clearly the status quo doesn't seem to be working.

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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    In Seton Hill's case the 'cash cow' may be getting 85 males on campus paying tuition. The 87 fans they draw weekly sure aren't making them any money.
    Exactly.

    The guy on this season of Last Chance U talked about that. He said that win or lose, he's a hero at that university because he's keeping the lights on. Those kids aren't there on scholarship. The football team fills every bed on that campus. That's more important at a school like that than winning is. They just want - and need - bodies.

  10. #130
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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by CALUPA69 View Post
    In 2008 the SHU undergrad enrollment was 1666. In 2019 it is 1676. I'd say they need a new plan, perhaps easing some of their academic requirements. There are plenty of C+ students that, given the chance, have performed well in both the classroom and the field. Clearly the status quo doesn't seem to be working.
    Maybe they're okay with the status quo. I get this is a football board, but maybe winning the PSAC West isn't a goal for Seton Hill football.

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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    Maybe they're okay with the status quo. I get this is a football board, but maybe winning the PSAC West isn't a goal for Seton Hill football.
    Their time in the PSAC has resulted in a 13-53 record. What could be the goal of SHU football. Curiously their record in the WVIAC was very similar, 13-43, even though they were competing with schools with similar enrollments. They are actually competitive in other sports and as much as it's comforting to pencil in a W on the calendar, it doesn't seem to make any kind of long term sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALUPA69 View Post
    Their time in the PSAC has resulted in a 13-53 record. What could be the goal of SHU football. Curiously their record in the WVIAC was very similar, 13-43, even though they were competing with schools with similar enrollments. They are actually competitive in other sports and as much as it's comforting to pencil in a W on the calendar, it doesn't seem to make any kind of long term sense.

    I think it appears as though we’re disagreeing, but we are each saying the same thing. Seton Hill is absolutely competitive in other sports, but they aren’t in football and never have been.

    I’m suggesting that their goal in football is not to win. It’s a tool that’s used to bump make enrollment. Hence my “hit their numbers” post.

    Athletically, they are losing money having a football team.


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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    I think it appears as though we’re disagreeing, but we are each saying the same thing. Seton Hill is absolutely competitive in other sports, but they aren’t in football and never have been.

    I’m suggesting that their goal in football is not to win. It’s a tool that’s used to bump make enrollment. Hence my “hit their numbers” post.

    Athletically, they are losing money having a football team.


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    Agree 100%. They are not competitive in football. But it doesn't seem to have bumped their enrollment in the last 11 years either. So SHU will be SHU. Nuff said.

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    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    They view football like Bob Nutting views the Pirates. Football helps their male enrollment (just over 30%) and gives some legitimacy to the athletic department.

  15. Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    They view football like Bob Nutting views the Pirates. Football helps their male enrollment (just over 30%) and gives some legitimacy to the athletic department.
    Not just that. There is another harsh reality about SHU. Football (and Basketball) players enable SHU to say 'Sure, we have a diverse student population. 6.8% of our students are African-American. So, we're just like all the other schools.' They are not. Calculate this. If 6.8% of the SHU students are African-American that equates to about 100 students, including both males and females (also consider SHU is 67% female!). The 2018 SHU football roster has 55 African-American players on it (not considering Hispanic players). Now throw in the basketball team. What you end up with is that there are virtually no African-American male students at SHU who do not play either varsity football or basketball. That's outrageous. So, in that way SHU system of values is not aligned with the rest of the PSAC schools, related to minority recruitment and enrollment.

  16. #136

    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    Not just that. There is another harsh reality about SHU. Football (and Basketball) players enable SHU to say 'Sure, we have a diverse student population. 6.8% of our students are African-American. So, we're just like all the other schools.' They are not. Calculate this. If 6.8% of the SHU students are African-American that equates to about 100 students, including both males and females (also consider SHU is 67% female!). The 2018 SHU football roster has 55 African-American players on it (not considering Hispanic players). Now throw in the basketball team. What you end up with is that there are virtually no African-American male students at SHU who do not play either varsity football or basketball. That's outrageous. So, in that way SHU system of values is not aligned with the rest of the PSAC schools, related to minority recruitment and enrollment.

    That's a deep theory and opens up an even deeper conversation. That said I think the same could likely be said for schools like Clarion, Lock Haven, Mansfield, etc.

  17. Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    That's a deep theory and opens up an even deeper conversation. That said I think the same could likely be said for schools like Clarion, Lock Haven, Mansfield, etc.
    Well, first of all it's not a theory. It's numbers. And, no, a state school like those you mention can't be that way for a number of reasons. Moreover, if you were to look at the numbers at those PSAC schools it's just not the same scenario at all.

  18. #138

    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    Well, first of all it's not a theory. It's numbers. And, no, a state school like those you mention can't be that way for a number of reasons. Moreover, if you were to look at the numbers at those PSAC schools it's just not the same scenario at all.
    You're implying a lot of Seton Hill.

  19. #139

    Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    Well, first of all it's not a theory. It's numbers. And, no, a state school like those you mention can't be that way for a number of reasons. Moreover, if you were to look at the numbers at those PSAC schools it's just not the same scenario at all.
    Clarion's African American student population is under 7 percent. Numbers, as you say, the same as Seton Hill.

    Lock Haven is 8.6% African American.

  20. Default Re: Psac west - 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Clarion's African American student population is under 7 percent. Numbers, as you say, the same as Seton Hill.

    Lock Haven is 8.6% African American.
    You have completely missed the point.

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