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Thread: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

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    Default Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    Dog days of Summer. I wasn't sure how to title this. Basically which three schools would be most attractive to draw in high school kids. Obviously going to pump our home teams up a bunch. But give equal though to other schools, and list an actual negative if you see it.

    1. NW - Winningest tradition in D2. Very good facilities. College town. Ungodly athletic funding for thIs level. Nebraska/Iowa Pipeline. With their success, I don't think they are throwing around big scholarships to incoming kids, and it takes longer to see the field.

    2. UCM - Fun offense. Sports sponsor. College town. Pretty solid resume, but not a playoff winner. School size (girls).

    3. Hays - Big college town. Recent success as 2x champs.. Few rivals in Western KS colorado area. Benefits most from not having nearby colleges. Negative - can success last after round of graduations
    Last edited by HookemHerd; 07-14-2019 at 12:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    I am plenty biased, but Pitt State belongs in this conversation, IMO. The problem at Pitt State is development of the talent they get. The HC at Pitt State isn’t held accountable and therefore he holds nobody else accountable. Just my opinion that I am sure will be ridiculed, but who gives a F***.
    Sent from my GorillaPad

  3. Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    Quote Originally Posted by cbgorilla View Post
    I am plenty biased, but Pitt State belongs in this conversation, IMO. The problem at Pitt State is development of the talent they get. The HC at Pitt State isn’t held accountable and therefore he holds nobody else accountable. Just my opinion that I am sure will be ridiculed, but who gives a F***.
    I understand your frustration cb. UCM is 10 years in with coach Boda and for whatever reason, the Mules have not reached coach Boda's "promise land" or anything even remotely close. Frustration abounds in Pittsburg and Warrensburg.

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    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    I actually think recruiting has been better under Beck, but player development has been in decline since the last few years of the Broyles era. In his heyday,when Pitt was rolling, Broyles was good at getting the most out of players, but not a great recruiter. Then again, maybe he was succesful because he was recruiting work ethic or some other intangible over raw talent back then, idk?

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    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    MSSU - You can come in and play right away and play a part in building something at MSSU that hasn't happened in 20+ years. You can always be remembered as part of the class that turned Missouri Southern football around, while playing in the best D2 conference in America. Exciting times ahead! #jointhepride

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    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    Quote Originally Posted by mosofan1 View Post
    MSSU - You can come in and play right away and play a part in building something at MSSU that hasn't happened in 20+ years. You can always be remembered as part of the class that turned Missouri Southern football around, while playing in the best D2 conference in America. Exciting times ahead! #jointhepride
    In the fine print does it say if the coach will allow water breaks? Scum

  7. #7

    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    Quote Originally Posted by HookemHerd View Post
    Dog days of Summer. I wasn't sure how to title this. Basically which three schools would be most attractive to draw in high school kids. Obviously going to pump our home teams up a bunch. But give equal though to other schools, and list an actual negative if you see it.

    1. NW - Winningest tradition in D2. Very good facilities. College town. Ungodly athletic funding for thIs level. Nebraska/Iowa Pipeline. With their success, I don't think they are throwing around big scholarships to incoming kids, and it takes longer to see the field.

    2. UCM - Fun offense. Sports sponsor. College town. Pretty solid resume, but not a playoff winner. School size (girls).

    3. Hays - Big college town. Recent success as 2x champs.. Few rivals in Western KS colorado area. Benefits most from not having nearby colleges. Negative - can success last after round of graduations
    I don't agree with some of your analysis but this can be an interesting discussion. I would provide a few different descriptions to be more precise. Your analysis is in blue.

    Central
    Experienced veteran coach.
    Great stadium.
    Good support.
    5-6, 9-3, 9-3, 8-3 records the last four years with one bowl win.
    0 National Championships.
    2 Program Playoff wins.
    Population 20,168. Rural setting. Estimated 2,022,349 population within a 100 mile radius. Estimated 9,247,610 population within a 200 mile radius.
    Pretty solid resume, but not a playoff winner. School size (girls). Great point on the school size/girls thing.

    Fort Hays
    Up and coming coach.
    Decent stadium.
    Decent support.
    9-3, 11-1, 8-4, 8-4 records the last four years with two playoff appearances, two conference championships, and one bowl win
    0 National Championships
    0 Program Playoff Wins
    Population 20,845. Rural/Isolated setting. Estimated 397,351 population within a 100 mile radius. Estimated 2,581,912 population within a 200 mile radius.
    Recent success as 2x champs.. Few rivals in Western KS colorado area.
    I didn't include your question about success sustaining as a negative. I think it's a question asked almost everywhere almost every year.

    Northwest
    Up and coming coach
    Great stadium
    Great support
    10-2, 9-3, 15-0, 15-0 record the last four years with two national championships, four playoff appearances, nine playoff wins, and three conference championships.
    6 National Championships
    50 Program Playoff Wins
    Population 11,757. Rural setting. Estimated 2,882,132 population within a 100 mile radius. Estimated 7,270,060 population within a 200 mile radius.
    With their success, I don't think they are throwing around big scholarships to incoming kids, and it takes longer to see the field.

    Pittsburg State
    One of the best stadiums
    Great support historically
    8-3, 8-4, 7-4, 6-5 record in the last four years with one bowl win.
    2 National Championships (NCAA)
    25 Program Playoff Wins (NCAA)
    Population 20,216. Rural setting. Estimated 1,839,934 population within a 100 mile radius. Estimated 8,367,771 population within a 200 mile radius.

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    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    Brown has been at Hays for like 8 years. Not up and coming, he built it. Good Veteran coach. Rest is fairly spot on. 100 mile radius I also think isn’t a good stat. 30 miles max is probably more relevant because kids aren’t going any further than that to Party or Uber

  9. #9

    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    Quote Originally Posted by HookemHerd View Post
    Brown has been at Hays for like 8 years. Not up and coming, he built it. Good Veteran coach. Rest is fairly spot on. 100 mile radius I also think isn’t a good stat. 30 miles max is probably more relevant because kids aren’t going any further than that to Party or Uber
    I meant up and coming as in moving on up or desired by higher levels. Jim has already been there.

    The reason I addressed the geography was because of your mention of Hays having no one to recruit against. I was trying to kind of look at the local population to get an idea of the density. Back in the day, some folks from Pennsylvania said the only reason the NCC/MIAA teams were good was because there were fewer colleges. It's important to compare population density. No worries.

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    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    I meant up and coming as in moving on up or desired by higher levels. Jim has already been there.

    The reason I addressed the geography was because of your mention of Hays having no one to recruit against. I was trying to kind of look at the local population to get an idea of the density. Back in the day, some folks from Pennsylvania said the only reason the NCC/MIAA teams were good was because there were fewer colleges. It's important to compare population density. No worries.
    you can always come up with the "reason" you need if you try hard enough.
    Go Bearcats!
    M-I-Z-Z-O-U!

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    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    I meant up and coming as in moving on up or desired by higher levels. Jim has already been there.

    The reason I addressed the geography was because of your mention of Hays having no one to recruit against. I was trying to kind of look at the local population to get an idea of the density. Back in the day, some folks from Pennsylvania said the only reason the NCC/MIAA teams were good was because there were fewer colleges. It's important to compare population density. No worries.
    That’s a good point about talent pool to draw from. But proximity of other football schools would be a factor then. Within 100 miles how many naia,d2, d1s are they going against. Judo too even if they have a lesser interest in KS kids as of late

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    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    Quote Originally Posted by HookemHerd View Post
    Dog days of Summer. I wasn't sure how to title this. Basically which three schools would be most attractive to draw in high school kids. Obviously going to pump our home teams up a bunch. But give equal though to other schools, and list an actual negative if you see it.

    1. NW - Winningest tradition in D2. Very good facilities. College town. Ungodly athletic funding for thIs level. Nebraska/Iowa Pipeline. With their success, I don't think they are throwing around big scholarships to incoming kids, and it takes longer to see the field.

    2. UCM - Fun offense. Sports sponsor. College town. Pretty solid resume, but not a playoff winner. School size (girls).

    3. Hays - Big college town. Recent success as 2x champs.. Few rivals in Western KS colorado area. Benefits most from not having nearby colleges. Negative - can success last after round of graduations
    BFE Western KS could be a minus in some recruits eyes as well, much like used to be the case in Manhattan

  13. #13

    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    Quote Originally Posted by HookemHerd View Post
    That’s a good point about talent pool to draw from. But proximity of other football schools would be a factor then. Within 100 miles how many naia,d2, d1s are they going against. Judo too even if they have a lesser interest in KS kids as of late
    Right. When I did a real study of this in the early 2000's, theoretical California football schools had the fewest competitors in relation to population. West Virginia was the worst. If I remember correctly, it was like a ratio of something like one school to a million people in California and one to 30,000 in West Virginia. Those numbers probably aren't accurate but you get the idea.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    What would you think of this program:

    Experienced veteran coach
    Decent stadium
    Decent support
    8-4, 6-5, 11-2, 11-3 record in the last four years with two playoff appearances, three playoff wins, one bowl win.
    0 National Championships (NCAA)
    3 Program Playoff Wins (NCAA)
    Population 24,724. Rural setting. Estimated 2,674,290 population within a 100 mile radius. Estimated 9,000,439 population within a 200 mile radius.
    Last edited by Hornetfan; 07-15-2019 at 03:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    Quote Originally Posted by Hornetfan View Post
    What would you think of this program:

    Experienced veteran coach
    Decent stadium
    Decent support
    8-4, 6-5, 11-2, 11-3 record in the last four years with two playoff appearances, three playoff wins, one bowl win.
    0 National Championships (NCAA)
    3 Program Playoff Wins (NCAA)
    Population 24,724. Rural setting. Estimated 2,674,290 population within a 100 mile radius. Estimated 9,000,439 population within a 200 mile radius.
    I was thinking they had really turned the corner at ESU, but they kind of backslid the last couple of years.

  16. Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    Quote Originally Posted by ILoveItWhenYouCallMeLittlePoppa View Post
    BFE Western KS could be a minus in some recruits eyes as well, much like used to be the case in Manhattan
    Agree. If anyone thinks Hays, KS isn't a BIG recruiting obstacle, they've probably spent very little time in Hays, KS. The town is fine. The geography is physically uncomfortable.

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    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    NW has twice as many playoff wins as Pitt State...never would have guessed the disparity was that much.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    Quote Originally Posted by libertybearcat View Post
    NW has twice as many playoff wins as Pitt State...never would have guessed the disparity was that much.
    He specified NCAA.

    Take in all of playoff wins and it's not. Also Pitt doesn't have the time in NCAA that NW does.

    Once you consider both the disparity isn't that much.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    Quote Originally Posted by PSR View Post
    He specified NCAA.

    Take in all of playoff wins and it's not. Also Pitt doesn't have the time in NCAA that NW does.

    Once you consider both the disparity isn't that much.
    Right. And it eliminates one? National Championship for Pitt.

    They are 16 seasons short of those who were in D2 in 1973 if I remember correctly.

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    Default Re: Challenge Rank: 3 Best Recruiting Situations

    not to mention expanded po’s skewing the numbers

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