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Thread: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

  1. #1

    Default Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Senseless gun violence in New Orleans. Half of the news stories on D2football.com about African-American college players getting shot. What's going on?

    What can be done about it?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nca...cid=spartanntp

  2. #2

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    What can be done about it?
    Provide real opportunity to them other than the streets. Too many low income people see no hope in legitimate means. So they see the local drug dealer as a role model because they flash money. Notice how i state they flash it, not have it. So many kids in these neighborhoods look up to the wrong role models, so when they grow up they follow in line. The few that have opportunity to escape still visit the neighborhoods and sometimes get caught in the middle of stuff. The way to eliminate all of this, is to start finding better opportunity than is currently available. For all the money spent on poverty all we have is more poverty to show for it. If they would have spent it on infrastructure with incentives to the companies to hire and train and employ low income adults, the problem would be better and we wouldn't have crumbling infrastructure either. But it is easier to ignore the problem and blame guns, because that is where the votes and bribes are.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikefln View Post
    Provide real opportunity to them other than the streets. Too many low income people see no hope in legitimate means. So they see the local drug dealer as a role model because they flash money. Notice how i state they flash it, not have it. So many kids in these neighborhoods look up to the wrong role models, so when they grow up they follow in line. The few that have opportunity to escape still visit the neighborhoods and sometimes get caught in the middle of stuff. The way to eliminate all of this, is to start finding better opportunity than is currently available. For all the money spent on poverty all we have is more poverty to show for it. If they would have spent it on infrastructure with incentives to the companies to hire and train and employ low income adults, the problem would be better and we wouldn't have crumbling infrastructure either. But it is easier to ignore the problem and blame guns, because that is where the votes and bribes are.
    And it is a different problem from these school/place of worship/ employment setting shootings.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikefln View Post
    Provide real opportunity to them other than the streets. Too many low income people see no hope in legitimate means. So they see the local drug dealer as a role model because they flash money. Notice how i state they flash it, not have it. So many kids in these neighborhoods look up to the wrong role models, so when they grow up they follow in line. The few that have opportunity to escape still visit the neighborhoods and sometimes get caught in the middle of stuff. The way to eliminate all of this, is to start finding better opportunity than is currently available. For all the money spent on poverty all we have is more poverty to show for it. If they would have spent it on infrastructure with incentives to the companies to hire and train and employ low income adults, the problem would be better and we wouldn't have crumbling infrastructure either. But it is easier to ignore the problem and blame guns, because that is where the votes and bribes are.
    Dude ... not all black people live in the ghetto or on the 'streets' -- nor did that article imply it.

    That basketball court could have been at a country club for all we know.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Dude ... not all black people live in the ghetto or on the 'streets' -- nor did that article imply it.

    That basketball court could have been at a country club for all we know.
    I think you have missed the point.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    I think you have missed the point.
    The second post in this thread made some huge assumptions regarding the original post.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Honestly, if people could figure it out someone would be screaming it from the mountain tops.

    Part of it is the lack of unskilled and low-skilled job opportunities for Americans, particularly African Americans because they're disproportionately living in areas without unskilled jobs. Without a massive federal program similar to the New Deal the haves and have nots will be moving further apart. People who work full time are much less likely to commit crimes regardless of demographic. I'm all for a crazy national jobs program to construct and rebuild infrastructure.

    The other part is the gun issue. I'm pro-gun and I own a gun. Its for fun not for sport or security. But those aren't the problems. Legal possession isn't the problem, illegal possession is the problem. I believe that punishment should deter crime but that conflicts with my attitude that too many people are incarcerated. So I dunno

    BUT...contrary to what some might lead us to believe, crime is at a historic low. The perception of increased crime is likely due to an effort to cover crime in the news.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Dude ... not all black people live in the ghetto or on the 'streets' -- nor did that article imply it.

    That basketball court could have been at a country club for all we know.
    The question was "what can be done about it?" I assumed that meant the broad gun violence issue and i addressed that. I was not addressing this particular event I was talking about the problem as a whole. Most of these events happen in ghettos on the street. I stated the issue there.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    And it is a different problem from these school/place of worship/ employment setting shootings.
    yes those problems are mental illness issues. It is not normal behavior to want to kill people in mass. Practically every person who committed those autocracies, have had known mental issues.

    Editing to add that it is not normal behavior to want to kill anyone. But doing it at the street level over drugs, as stated in the Godfather movies, is just business to people in that world. Most of us have better circumstances so we don't understand that world. For us to kill someone it is either by accident or if intentional, we had to be provoked where we felt life was at stake. But to have a desire to kill en mass, that is straight bat **** crazy thinking/behavior.
    Last edited by Mikefln; 06-20-2019 at 01:22 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    The second post in this thread made some huge assumptions regarding the original post.
    Or I can actually read what the question asked to the board which was : "What can be done about it?" To me I read that as the macro problem of gun violence in this country. Most gun violence in this country stems from the drug trade at the street gang level.

    Go into Chicago with my solution and I bet it cleans up better then the typical BS politicians throw out there.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikefln View Post
    Or I can actually read what the question asked to the board which was : "What can be done about it?" To me I read that as the macro problem of gun violence in this country. Most gun violence in this country stems from the drug trade at the street gang level.

    Go into Chicago with my solution and I bet it cleans up better then the typical BS politicians throw out there.
    Yeah, I thought it was a great answer. And has been pointed out I think any ideas would be welcome.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikefln View Post
    Or I can actually read what the question asked to the board which was : "What can be done about it?" To me I read that as the macro problem of gun violence in this country. Most gun violence in this country stems from the drug trade at the street gang level.

    Go into Chicago with my solution and I bet it cleans up better then the typical BS politicians throw out there.


    Senseless gun violence in New Orleans. Half of the news stories on D2football.com about African-American college players getting shot. What's going on?

    What can be done about it?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nca...cid=spartanntp



    Provide real opportunity to them other than the streets. Too many low income people see no hope in legitimate means. So they see the local drug dealer as a role model because they flash money. Notice how i state they flash it, not have it. So many kids in these neighborhoods look up to the wrong role models, so when they grow up they follow in line. The few that have opportunity to escape still visit the neighborhoods and sometimes get caught in the middle of stuff. The way to eliminate all of this, is to start finding better opportunity than is currently available. For all the money spent on poverty all we have is more poverty to show for it. If they would have spent it on infrastructure with incentives to the companies to hire and train and employ low income adults, the problem would be better and we wouldn't have crumbling infrastructure either. But it is easier to ignore the problem and blame guns, because that is where the votes and bribes are.


    Are we assuming because these are black athletes they are low income?

    I can actually read, too, and that just comes off as very racist.

    The story didn't say a thing about these kids' backgrounds. Just because black athletes get shot doesn't mean it's in the ghetto.
    Last edited by IUPbigINDIANS; 06-20-2019 at 02:33 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    Honestly, if people could figure it out someone would be screaming it from the mountain tops.
    I think it can be figured out, but the work is too hard and no one has the will to move forward with it. Also too much money in the current system for both sides for real change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    Part of it is the lack of unskilled and low-skilled job opportunities for Americans, particularly African Americans because they're disproportionately living in areas without unskilled jobs. Without a massive federal program similar to the New Deal the haves and have nots will be moving further apart. People who work full time are much less likely to commit crimes regardless of demographic. I'm all for a crazy national jobs program to construct and rebuild infrastructure.
    Exactly. Thank you. Not that the New Deal didn't have issues, because many think that it prolonged the depression, but I would rather see that then the current status quo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    The other part is the gun issue. I'm pro-gun and I own a gun. Its for fun not for sport or security. But those aren't the problems. Legal possession isn't the problem, illegal possession is the problem. I believe that punishment should deter crime but that conflicts with my attitude that too many people are incarcerated. So I dunno
    Outside of the Bernie Madoff's of the world who destroyed many peoples lives, all other non violent offenders should be on house arrest. I am a big believer in punishment to the full extent of the law and no plead deals for violent offenders. I hate the idea of letting the small fish go to catch the big fish. The small fish are the ones causing the problems by doing the action. They are the ones on the streets exposing themselves and making mistakes that get caught. Arrest them, when the next small fish pops up and makes a mistake arrest them. Eventually all the small fish will be off the street and the medium and big fish will either need to take to the street themselves where they could be caught or they retire. Plus you stop the small fish from becoming a big fish. instead we continue with the same BS that isn't working.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    BUT...contrary to what some might lead us to believe, crime is at a historic low. The perception of increased crime is likely due to an effort to cover crime in the news.
    Agree again.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Senseless gun violence in New Orleans. Half of the news stories on D2football.com about African-American college players getting shot. What's going on?

    What can be done about it?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nca...cid=spartanntp



    Provide real opportunity to them other than the streets. Too many low income people see no hope in legitimate means. So they see the local drug dealer as a role model because they flash money. Notice how i state they flash it, not have it. So many kids in these neighborhoods look up to the wrong role models, so when they grow up they follow in line. The few that have opportunity to escape still visit the neighborhoods and sometimes get caught in the middle of stuff. The way to eliminate all of this, is to start finding better opportunity than is currently available. For all the money spent on poverty all we have is more poverty to show for it. If they would have spent it on infrastructure with incentives to the companies to hire and train and employ low income adults, the problem would be better and we wouldn't have crumbling infrastructure either. But it is easier to ignore the problem and blame guns, because that is where the votes and bribes are.


    Are we assuming because these are black athletes they are low income?

    I can actually read, too, and that just comes off as very racist.

    The story didn't say a thing about these kids' backgrounds. Just because black athletes get shot doesn't mean it's in the ghetto.
    I stated that the way I read the question was not in reference to stopping that individual event to the Grambling player, (Micro). The way I read the question, it was how to solve the gun violence issue in America (Macro). I am still fairly certain that is what the OP was asking the board. The OP even responded that he felt I gave a great answer, so again I think I answered it accordingly to what was being asked as in the Macro not the micro of this case. There is gun violence everywhere in the USA from all demographics, but it is not racist to state that the biggest % of gun violence comes from inner city street gangs in the drug trade.

    If anything I can turn this on you because I phrased it as low income people (did not single out any group), because that is where most violent crime happens rather it be in white, black, Asian, Hispanic, neighborhoods. You are the one who referenced what I was saying to mean black people.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    The majority of deaths by guns are suicides, not mass shootings or gang/drug dealing violence.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...icides/578812/

  16. #16

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikefln View Post
    Provide real opportunity to them other than the streets. Too many low income people see no hope in legitimate means. So they see the local drug dealer as a role model because they flash money. Notice how i state they flash it, not have it. So many kids in these neighborhoods look up to the wrong role models, so when they grow up they follow in line. The few that have opportunity to escape still visit the neighborhoods and sometimes get caught in the middle of stuff. The way to eliminate all of this, is to start finding better opportunity than is currently available. For all the money spent on poverty all we have is more poverty to show for it. If they would have spent it on infrastructure with incentives to the companies to hire and train and employ low income adults, the problem would be better and we wouldn't have crumbling infrastructure either. But it is easier to ignore the problem and blame guns, because that is where the votes and bribes are.
    BINGO, but it also starts with education. Inner city teachers are more like babysitters than teachers, can you imagine having to teach children that come to school hungry? The focus needs to be more on breaking the cycle they are currently living in. The old saying never forget where you came from is true, don't forget, but you don't have to remember by staying in that environment on continuing visiting that environment, unless its to improve the environment, not just to hang in the environment.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Let me also say this, back in the day we used our fists to solve problems. Now, the problem solver is the of guns. I'm not a gun owner, but at times I feel that I need to own one just for self-defense. But this problem is much deeper that just weapons, if you ask any young man that is carrying a weapon why? They'll probably say "for self-defense, shoot or be shot". That's the mentality we are dealing with today, and until that changes this will never end.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    The majority of deaths by guns are suicides, not mass shootings or gang/drug dealing violence.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...icides/578812/
    Not trying to be a wise ass and others may feel different but I feel the means that someone commits suicide is irrelevant. A person who is hell bent on self destruction will self destruct no matter what they need to do. It is sad that people get to this point, and I wish there was more that was being done, but this issue is not a gun violence issue, it is a mental illness issue.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony33 View Post
    BINGO, but it also starts with education. Inner city teachers are more like babysitters than teachers, can you imagine having to teach children that come to school hungry? The focus needs to be more on breaking the cycle they are currently living in. The old saying never forget where you came from is true, don't forget, but you don't have to remember by staying in that environment on continuing visiting that environment, unless its to improve the environment, not just to hang in the environment.
    My Sister in law teaches at a Pittsburgh Inner City school and you described it very well. She has said as much as " how am I supposed to teach a kid who is stealing food in the second grade because they are hungry? They are already in survival mode and only so much can be taught to them because their focus is on getting their next meal." Guys trust me when I tell you that she is not even teaching in the poorest neighborhood in Pittsburgh and she deals with this way too much. The cycle needs broken, but no leader has the resolve to really fix it. They just want to act like they care and are trying. They are not doing the work though.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Grambling player shot-brother killed in New Orleans

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony33 View Post
    BINGO, but it also starts with education. Inner city teachers are more like babysitters than teachers, can you imagine having to teach children that come to school hungry? The focus needs to be more on breaking the cycle they are currently living in. The old saying never forget where you came from is true, don't forget, but you don't have to remember by staying in that environment on continuing visiting that environment, unless its to improve the environment, not just to hang in the environment.
    its way harder than that. These student-athletes friends and family are in this environment, everyone is more comfortable in an environment they are used to and sometimes they need to reattach with friends, and unfortunately get into trouble.

    Consider that they have more demands on them at college, they don't know who they can trust, and certain elements of academia are telling them how they should be feeling about being in the new environment. They really have to learn how to keep connected to two cultures - One is judging you because of your background ( remember the unkind comments about certain black athletes families behavior at the games), your academics which maybe be difficult because of the weak schools you attend and people you grew up with think you are rejecting them. Its an incredibly difficult thing to do, even without the athletic demands. Its really amazing there are as many good outcomes as there are. I'm not talking about coddling, but understanding and support for what is really going on with them. BTW the same is true for the white kids from rural poverty who are currently killing themselves with opioids.

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