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Thread: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

  1. #21

    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrabs74 View Post
    It sounds like the Phillies have a problem with their pitching staff, which is probably a more likely reason the Phillies are stumbling.
    They do have pitching issues but there have been gems pitched recently with no run support. McCutchen provided leadership. No one has replaced that.

  2. #22

    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Off the subject matter but the Buccos get to face Gerit Cole tonight for the first time.

    If you want to discuss arrogant, pompous baseball players ... Cole is in the Top 5.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Off the subject matter but the Buccos get to face Gerit Cole tonight for the first time.

    If you want to discuss arrogant, pompous baseball players ... Cole is in the Top 5.
    Gerritt Cole was a UCLA teammate of Cleveland pitcher Trevor Bauer and, reportedly, the two didn't exactly get along during their time in Westwood.
    Cal U (Pa.) Class of 2014

  4. #24

    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrabs74 View Post
    Gerritt Cole was a UCLA teammate of Cleveland pitcher Trevor Bauer and, reportedly, the two didn't exactly get along during their time in Westwood.
    They both have real bubbly personalities.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Off the subject matter but the Buccos get to face Gerit Cole tonight for the first time.

    If you want to discuss arrogant, pompous baseball players ... Cole is in the Top 5.
    I think a lot of these guys talk through their agent. You're seeing it more and more in baseball and at extreme levels in the NFL. He's a Scott Boras client and that's the way it goes with those guys. Regardless of how much a team is willing to offer to keep them, they refuse to resign with that club because somebody will pay a few dollars more for him if he is a free agent.

    I don't agree with any Pirate fan that hates Gerrit Cole. When the Pirates had it rolling from 2013-2015 he was the face of that as much as Andrew McCutchen was. Say what you want about his Wildcard Game performance in 2015, Cole gave the Pirates more than enough during his time in Pittsburgh.

    A lot of people dislike Gerrit Cole for his antics/behavior on the field. I didn't. Hey, everything is supposed to be all about fun now right? "Pimping home runs" and bat flips and showing up the pitcher, etc. People want baseball to now be reduced to 3-4 second GIFs that Barstool Sports can post. I'm not about that. But if it's acceptable for a guy to show up the pitcher after he hits a home run, I don't care when a guy like Gerrit Cole or AJ Burnett jaws at the guy he just threw a chair to. That's why I think the reaction to that pitcher from Louisville the other night was hysterically ironic. Vanderbilt guys were chirping at him earlier in the game, he gets a big strikeout to end an inning and tells a guy to go "eff himself," but he's wrong. If a kid from Vandy hit a big home run earlier, flipped his bat, walked to first, and stared at the pitcher it would be celebrated and seen as a huge victory in ending the old school approach to baseball.

    Guys like Cole, and Luke Smith from Louisville can keep doing their thing if that's where baseball is headed. Give me the guy that tells a guy to go eff himself after he gets a big strikeout if we're letting the hitters act like jerks now.

  6. #26

    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    I think a lot of these guys talk through their agent. You're seeing it more and more in baseball and at extreme levels in the NFL. He's a Scott Boras client and that's the way it goes with those guys. Regardless of how much a team is willing to offer to keep them, they refuse to resign with that club because somebody will pay a few dollars more for him if he is a free agent.

    I don't agree with any Pirate fan that hates Gerrit Cole. When the Pirates had it rolling from 2013-2015 he was the face of that as much as Andrew McCutchen was. Say what you want about his Wildcard Game performance in 2015, Cole gave the Pirates more than enough during his time in Pittsburgh.

    A lot of people dislike Gerrit Cole for his antics/behavior on the field. I didn't. Hey, everything is supposed to be all about fun now right? "Pimping home runs" and bat flips and showing up the pitcher, etc. People want baseball to now be reduced to 3-4 second GIFs that Barstool Sports can post. I'm not about that. But if it's acceptable for a guy to show up the pitcher after he hits a home run, I don't care when a guy like Gerrit Cole or AJ Burnett jaws at the guy he just threw a chair to. That's why I think the reaction to that pitcher from Louisville the other night was hysterically ironic. Vanderbilt guys were chirping at him earlier in the game, he gets a big strikeout to end an inning and tells a guy to go "eff himself," but he's wrong. If a kid from Vandy hit a big home run earlier, flipped his bat, walked to first, and stared at the pitcher it would be celebrated and seen as a huge victory in ending the old school approach to baseball.

    Guys like Cole, and Luke Smith from Louisville can keep doing their thing if that's where baseball is headed. Give me the guy that tells a guy to go eff himself after he gets a big strikeout if we're letting the hitters act like jerks now.
    I don't know what you're trying to say. Are you saying you like this kind of behavior? Or is it only ok for pitchers if they've been provoked by hitters? When you refer to "where baseball is headed" are you suggesting the players are running the game and screw any regulation of the game?

  7. #27
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    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    I don't know what you're trying to say. Are you saying you like this kind of behavior? Or is it only ok for pitchers if they've been provoked by hitters? When you refer to "where baseball is headed" are you suggesting the players are running the game and screw any regulation of the game?
    I'm saying that I believe in the unwritten rules of baseball. I was taught to respect the game. I don't like the bat flip antics that people want to consider acceptable now. Forever, if somebody did something incorrect on the field, they had to answer for it during their next at bat by getting one between the numbers. That's the way it has been for over 100 years. I have never had an issue with that. And I still don't. I can identify three instances when I played baseball in high school that I was hit by a pitch for something I did or somebody else on my team did. I understood it, dropped my bat, and ran to first.

    I think there's a difference between celebrating and showing a guy up. The stuff that's been talked about all season in Major League Baseball is showing somebody up. I don't like the bat flip antics; I'm not a fan of standing in the batters box and admiring your work; I'm not okay with a guy taking 45 seconds to trot around the bases. I don't like that stuff. And if you do it, I have no problem with the next time the situation calls for it, either you or a teammate get drilled. Act like a jerk and you get one in the back. That's the way baseball has been forever.

    If a guy hits a home run and has demonstrative and celebratory behavior going around the bases I'm fine with it. If a guy is mobbed by his teammates outside of the dugout after hitting a big home run, go all out - have fun. On the same token, if a pitcher gets a big K on the mound or gets out of a jam, I have no problem with a guy celebrating coming off the field. I pitched when I played and I wasn't shy about showing emotion, but I didn't show it towards the other team's dugout. That's where I'm saying there's a difference.

    We are now being told that it's acceptable for a hitter to act like a jerk. I'm not aboard that train. The point I'm saying is that if the culture of baseball wants "this" - hitters showing up a pitcher to generate attention for the sport in the echo chambers of social media - then I'm fine pitchers being able to give it right back.

    There can't be a double standard if baseball wants these antics. You can't celebrate Derek Deitrich for his showmanship, but then say there isn't any place in the game for Luke Smith to yell at a guy he just fanned in the College World Series.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    I don't know what you're trying to say. Are you saying you like this kind of behavior? Or is it only ok for pitchers if they've been provoked by hitters? When you refer to "where baseball is headed" are you suggesting the players are running the game and screw any regulation of the game?
    I enjoy baseball very much. It was the sport I played and had the opportunity to play in college, but didn't. To those less interested in the game, baseball is seen as boring, slow, and vanilla.

    The media and the league office want more characters in the game. They want showmanship and flash. The sport's popularity is plummeting. Bryce Harper is a great player, but he's also a jerk. They want more jerks that are good players. They want more villains.

    Where baseball is heading is towards irrelevance. That's why they're trying to stop a team from throwing at a guy who just "showed up" the pitcher. Because they want more guys to show up the pitcher. Not that I agree with it, but if you have Barstool Sports and twitter posting videos of your game with jerk-ish type behavior, the younger demographic will eat that stuff up.

  9. #29

    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    I enjoy baseball very much. It was the sport I played and had the opportunity to play in college, but didn't. To those less interested in the game, baseball is seen as boring, slow, and vanilla.

    The media and the league office want more characters in the game. They want showmanship and flash. The sport's popularity is plummeting. Bryce Harper is a great player, but he's also a jerk. They want more jerks that are good players. They want more villains.

    Where baseball is heading is towards irrelevance. That's why they're trying to stop a team from throwing at a guy who just "showed up" the pitcher. Because they want more guys to show up the pitcher. Not that I agree with it, but if you have Barstool Sports and twitter posting videos of your game with jerk-ish type behavior, the younger demographic will eat that stuff up.
    Start of second paragraph nailed it. Baseball TV ratings and actual stadium attendance is WAY down. They want spice and characters.

    It goes way beyond the Majors. Little League participation is down. The younger generation has the attention span of a click on a phone. Watching MLB and its God-awful long games ... it's not for the young.

    They want bat flips and Yasiel Puig outbursts. It makes good highlights. Baseball is walking down that irrelevant path at a fast pace.

    Other note I don't support the wimp pitcher getting to plunk somebody and then not have to answer the bell. They get tossed or pulled. Let those guys be required to bat after intentionally beaning a player ... and you'll see that tactic vanish real quick.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Start of second paragraph nailed it. Baseball TV ratings and actual stadium attendance is WAY down. They want spice and characters.

    It goes way beyond the Majors. Little League participation is down. The younger generation has the attention span of a click on a phone. Watching MLB and its God-awful long games ... it's not for the young.

    They want bat flips and Yasiel Puig outbursts. It makes good highlights. Baseball is walking down that irrelevant path at a fast pace.

    Other note I don't support the wimp pitcher getting to plunk somebody and then not have to answer the bell. They get tossed or pulled. Let those guys be required to bat after intentionally beaning a player ... and you'll see that tactic vanish real quick.
    In the context of the game, that's not always the case. Those guys don't always get tossed. Umpires - should - know the code. It's clear when they're throwing at somebody. Then you move on. Sometimes it becomes a problem when a pitcher throws at somebody as a response, and then all is fine and good, until the other team throws back. That's essentially the third strike if you will.

    Your theory also would require the American League to eliminate the DH, which will never happen. The NL will go to the DH before the AL ever eliminates it.

    Baseball is likely beyond repair. Rob Manfried, who I don't support as commissioner, is trying to make radical changes to a sport that's been played the same way for over 100 years. I don't think what he's doing is good for the sport or the game itself. What baseball needs is a salary cap, but that won't ever happen in that league. If you look at the NHL, that's why the league is so competitive. Same with the NFL. The cap creates parity and levels the playing field. When approximately half the league can't spend enough to realistically compete every year, who blames the fans for not being interested.

    I've watched a grand total of about 6-10 innings of Pirates baseball this year. I'm a baseball lifer, and I just don't care anymore. It's not worth me investing my time into something that I know the team I root for can never win.

  11. #31

    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    In the context of the game, that's not always the case. Those guys don't always get tossed. Umpires - should - know the code. It's clear when they're throwing at somebody. Then you move on. Sometimes it becomes a problem when a pitcher throws at somebody as a response, and then all is fine and good, until the other team throws back. That's essentially the third strike if you will.

    Your theory also would require the American League to eliminate the DH, which will never happen. The NL will go to the DH before the AL ever eliminates it.

    Baseball is likely beyond repair. Rob Manfried, who I don't support as commissioner, is trying to make radical changes to a sport that's been played the same way for over 100 years. I don't think what he's doing is good for the sport or the game itself. What baseball needs is a salary cap, but that won't ever happen in that league. If you look at the NHL, that's why the league is so competitive. Same with the NFL. The cap creates parity and levels the playing field. When approximately half the league can't spend enough to realistically compete every year, who blames the fans for not being interested.

    I've watched a grand total of about 6-10 innings of Pirates baseball this year. I'm a baseball lifer, and I just don't care anymore. It's not worth me investing my time into something that I know the team I root for can never win.

    MLB is like the 'revenue' sports in D2. You're a HAVE or a HAVE NOT. There's not even really a middle ground.

    Schools like Clarion, Lock Haven, etc., ... If everything went perfect they could 'maybe' have one big season in 20 years. The D2 playing field, currently, is as uneven as it gets from the top to the bottom.

    The 'IUP Rule' helped to make things more competitive or IUP likely would have had a decades-long reign of terror on the conference.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    MLB is like the 'revenue' sports in D2. You're a HAVE or a HAVE NOT. There's not even really a middle ground.

    Schools like Clarion, Lock Haven, etc., ... If everything went perfect they could 'maybe' have one big season in 20 years. The D2 playing field, currently, is as uneven as it gets from the top to the bottom.

    The 'IUP Rule' helped to make things more competitive or IUP likely would have had a decades-long reign of terror on the conference.
    Which is exactly why allowing a bunch of jerks to throw their bats around isn't going to change the sport's future.

  13. #33

    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    Which is exactly why allowing a bunch of jerks to throw their bats around isn't going to change the sport's future.
    Believe it or not when I first raised this issue I wasn't thinking in terms of selling tickets or profitability. I was thinking about decency, sportsmanship and being an example to the community and to youth. Things like that. Maybe you are right. If it's the opposite of those things that sells tickets maybe Manny Machado should conduct players seminars around the league during the off-season. Really make baseball exciting.

  14. #34

    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    Believe it or not when I first raised this issue I wasn't thinking in terms of selling tickets or profitability. I was thinking about decency, sportsmanship and being an example to the community and to youth. Things like that. Maybe you are right. If it's the opposite of those things that sells tickets maybe Manny Machado should conduct players seminars around the league during the off-season. Really make baseball exciting.

    It can't get much more boring than it currently is ... so, maybe that's a good idea.

    At the end of the day, it's ALL about selling tickets and profitability. We call it a game. They call it a business. And, minus a handful of teams, none of them are selling many tickets.

  15. #35

    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    It can't get much more boring than it currently is ... so, maybe that's a good idea.

    At the end of the day, it's ALL about selling tickets and profitability. We call it a game. They call it a business. And, minus a handful of teams, none of them are selling many tickets.
    I follow it every day. I talk baseball to people every day. There were 70 million tickets sold last year for major league baseball games. 70 million. Add to that an extensive minor league system and a vibrant college game. It's down. But before that it was up. A lot of things can be said to be in decline. I think baseball has some staying power even if it isn't the focus that it was in earlier days.

    I realize you look at everything in terms of sales. That's fine. Or maybe you just don't like baseball. I don't know. Possibly your perceptions are a little bit affected because you live in Western Pennsylvania where you have a moribund franchise that should have left town a long time ago.

  16. #36

    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    I follow it every day. I talk baseball to people every day. There were 70 million tickets sold last year for major league baseball games. 70 million. Add to that an extensive minor league system and a vibrant college game. It's down. But before that it was up. A lot of things can be said to be in decline. I think baseball has some staying power even if it isn't the focus that it was in earlier days.

    I realize you look at everything in terms of sales. That's fine. Or maybe you just don't like baseball. I don't know. Possibly your perceptions are a little bit affected because you live in Western Pennsylvania where you have a moribund franchise that should have left town a long time ago.

    To be honest, I could just give two craps that Manny Machado threw a bat. MLB didn't care either being he got a whopping one game. He's just one in a long list.

    If they have to promote WWE theatrics to get people paying attention so be it.

  17. #37

    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    I follow it every day. I talk baseball to people every day. There were 70 million tickets sold last year for major league baseball games. 70 million. Add to that an extensive minor league system and a vibrant college game. It's down. But before that it was up. A lot of things can be said to be in decline. I think baseball has some staying power even if it isn't the focus that it was in earlier days.

    I realize you look at everything in terms of sales. That's fine. Or maybe you just don't like baseball. I don't know. Possibly your perceptions are a little bit affected because you live in Western Pennsylvania where you have a moribund franchise that should have left town a long time ago.

    Curious what age demographic do you fall into?

    You sound pretty old-school in your beliefs toward baseball. I thought, if I was following along correctly, the conversation had shifted to how nobody in the lower age groups was following MLB anymore, and thus how MLB was trying to 'WWE it up' to attract a younger audience.

  18. #38

    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Curious what age demographic do you fall into?

    You sound pretty old-school in your beliefs toward baseball. I thought, if I was following along correctly, the conversation had shifted to how nobody in the lower age groups was following MLB anymore, and thus how MLB was trying to 'WWE it up' to attract a younger audience.
    I'm in the 55-64 demo. This whole age gap thing is getting out of control. Either you're an old Democrat or a young "progressive" Democrat. Either you're an old school baseball fan or a young one with a 2 minute attention span. Either you're an old IUP fan or a young one who needs to have a buzz on (we used to say that) to get inside the stadium. When I was a kid you had Abbie Hoffman saying "don't trust anyone over 30." Now it's more like don't respect anyone over a certain age - they just don't get it. I really hate to see the world this younger generation creates. I'm glad I grew up when I did.

  19. #39

    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Curious what age demographic do you fall into?

    You sound pretty old-school in your beliefs toward baseball. I thought, if I was following along correctly, the conversation had shifted to how nobody in the lower age groups was following MLB anymore, and thus how MLB was trying to 'WWE it up' to attract a younger audience.
    I'm still going to come back to the 70 million tickets sold theme. That's a 7 followed by 7 zeroes. Explain that. Is it the Dodgers Dogs? Bull's BBQ?

  20. #40

    Default Re: OT: Manny Machado freaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Curious what age demographic do you fall into?

    You sound pretty old-school in your beliefs toward baseball. I thought, if I was following along correctly, the conversation had shifted to how nobody in the lower age groups was following MLB anymore, and thus how MLB was trying to 'WWE it up' to attract a younger audience.
    BTW, the people I talk baseball with are mostly under 30. Just sayin'.

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