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Thread: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

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    Default From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    http://www.espn.com/college-sports/s...ch-kicked-miac

    They’ve had a very successful football program for the last decade and have been in the D3 title game a couple times. They are members of the MIAC, which was dominated for decades by John Gagliardi’s St. John’s football team.

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    Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    This is embarrassing for the MIAC. St. Thomas finished THIRD in football standings last season and missed the playoffs.

    We have had a thread going here for quite some time if you want some local comments. Do they stay in D3? The ARC and UMAC don't want them. Maybe the Wisconsin schools- the WIAC, which are all public, to stay in D3. The only D3 conference that could take them is the NSIC, which will have an opening when Augustana leaves. And for those who ask about them moving to D1- well, you can't make the straight jump anymore, so that would take even longer.

    http://www.d2messageboard.com/showthread.php?t=94868

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    Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    embarrassing and asinine. i would be ashamed of nwms if we were associated with such a cowardly agenda.
    Go Bearcats!
    M-I-Z-Z-O-U!

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    Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    I know very little about the situation, but everything I am reading states that this is because of football...I would submit that football is nothing more than a scapegoat here. St. Thomas has won the league's All-Sports Trophies for both men and women every year since 2007-08. Going back to the inception of their all-sports awards, the men have 33 wins and the women 28...no other league member is within 20 of either. Program-wide success HAS to be what is driving this.

  5. Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Nicolette View Post
    I know very little about the situation, but everything I am reading states that this is because of football...I would submit that football is nothing more than a scapegoat here. St. Thomas has won the league's All-Sports Trophies for both men and women every year since 2007-08. Going back to the inception of their all-sports awards, the men have 33 wins and the women 28...no other league member is within 20 of either. Program-wide success HAS to be what is driving this.
    I wonder if the GLIAC is getting ready to give GVSU the boot given the streak of President Cups?

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    Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    Quote Originally Posted by MrsThortonMelon View Post
    I wonder if the GLIAC is getting ready to give GVSU the boot given the streak of President Cups?
    A fair question, I suppose.

    The more I think about this situation, there HAS to be even more at play than simply "they win too much". Gotta be some sort of politics impacting from somewhere.

    Regardless, this is a decidedly weak and shortsighted position by the rest of that league. One of the remaining members will figure out how to be the next power...what are they going to do then, drive THEM out too? No room for excellence in this league, it would appear.

  7. Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    If it was just about football, they should have told UST to move to the WIAC as an affiliate and brought Macalester back for football to replace them (which they will do anyway)

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    Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    Quote Originally Posted by cwfenn View Post
    http://www.espn.com/college-sports/s...ch-kicked-miac

    They’ve had a very successful football program for the last decade and have been in the D3 title game a couple times. They are members of the MIAC, which was dominated for decades by John Gagliardi’s St. John’s football team.
    Unbelievable!! Hope those school "presidents" ( a misnomer here) are shamed & booed the remainder of their lives when they mention "aspire to do your best" in any way!

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    Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Nicolette View Post
    A fair question, I suppose.

    The more I think about this situation, there HAS to be even more at play than simply "they win too much". Gotta be some sort of politics impacting from somewhere.

    Regardless, this is a decidedly weak and shortsighted position by the rest of that league. One of the remaining members will figure out how to be the next power...what are they going to do then, drive THEM out too? No room for excellence in this league, it would appear.
    St John's has a much better history of winning in football than St. Thomas does. The Tommies were runner up one year, the Johnnies have four or five titles. St Thomas was third in the league last season behind St John's and Bethel, they didn't even make the playoffs.

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    Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    "the school was "involuntarily" removed from the Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (MIAC) on Wednesday because of its "competitive" advantages."


    Yeah . . . let''s send the Patriots to the C.F.L. !!

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    Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    Quote Originally Posted by Wide_Right View Post
    "the school was "involuntarily" removed from the Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (MIAC) on Wednesday because of its "competitive" advantages."


    Yeah . . . let''s send the Patriots to the C.F.L. !!
    I don’t think their football coach did them any favors. From what I hear he runs trick play two point conversions when they are up 50 points. When questioned the response is “the kids love it”. A spokesman for one of the other schools was quoted in the Star Tribune that the 97 to 0 shellacking of St. Olaf was the last straw for a number of the members.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
    I don’t think their football coach did them any favors. From what I hear he runs trick play two point conversions when they are up 50 points. When questioned the response is “the kids love it”. A spokesman for one of the other schools was quoted in the Star Tribune that the 97 to 0 shellacking of St. Olaf was the last straw for a number of the members.

    Sounds like an ass, but that’s not a great reason either. No coach lasts forever.

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    Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    Quote Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
    I don’t think their football coach did them any favors. From what I hear he runs trick play two point conversions when they are up 50 points. When questioned the response is “the kids love it”. A spokesman for one of the other schools was quoted in the Star Tribune that the 97 to 0 shellacking of St. Olaf was the last straw for a number of the members.
    Gags at St John's did the same thing. He would go for two up 70-0. When asked about it, he said he wanted to polish up his two point plays for the playoffs.

    The best thing about Johnnie-Tommie games is that one team has to lose.

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    Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    The conference press release is precious.

    MIAC announces conference membership change


    ...there was no path forward that preserved the MIAC in its current form.
    While no formal vote was held, all 13 MIAC presidents agreed to a transition that will end St. Thomas' membership in the conference by the spring of 2021.
    So the St Thomas president apparently agreed?

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    Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    Quote Originally Posted by Horror Child View Post
    The conference press release is precious.

    MIAC announces conference membership change






    So the St Thomas president apparently agreed?
    They should have just come out and said "St Thomas has been kicking our collective a$$'es for YEARS and we are tired of it. But not so tired that any of us are willing to do something to make ourselves better. No, we decided that we're going to take the easy way out by taking our ball from St Thomas and going home. We hope St Thomas DIES because they are big POOPIE faces!!!"

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    Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league


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    Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    Quote Originally Posted by laker View Post
    I'd bet the DII school was Upper Iowa
    Maybe the Tommies should look into joining the American Rivers conference

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    Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    Article by a former UST football player:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...EfFQBTCsY/edit

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    Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    I think we have to understand D3 athletics a little bit to see what is going on here. D3 is mostly private universities and colleges. Those schools can range from a few hundred enrollment to a few thousand at most. The schools in the conference that St. Thomas have total enrollments of 2000-2500 - pretty typical for D3. St. Thomas has a total enrollment of around 10,000. That enrollment for a private school is massive. They are playing in a D3 sandbox with D1 dollars, which in turn gives the school a grossly unfair competitive advantage. And while I understand that D3 is technically non-athletic scholarship, functionally it is very much athletic scholarship, cloaked in all kinds of other rewards, scholarships, and grants.

    While the analogy doesn't quite fit, imagine the University of Missouri opting to join the MIAA. How many out of 100 conference championships do you think they would win as the flagship university for the state of Missouri? Obviously they would have no business being in the MIAA, and University of St. Thomas has no business being in D3 or D2 for that matter. They have plenty of freight to play FCS at a minimum and likely STILL dominate. They need to find a sandbox that they aren't too big for. Not that big a deal.
    Last edited by Herb Street; 05-27-2019 at 09:18 PM.

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    Default Re: From D3: U. of St. Thomas kicked out of their league

    Quote Originally Posted by Herb Street View Post
    I think we have to understand D3 athletics a little bit to see what is going on here. D3 is mostly private universities and colleges. Those schools can range from a few hundred enrollment to a few thousand at most. My understanding is that U. of St. Thomas has an enrollment of over 10,000. That enrollment for a private school is massive. They are playing in a D3 sandbox with D1 dollars, which in turn gives the school a grossly unfair competitive advantage. And while I understand that D3 is technically non-athletic scholarship, functionally it is very much athletic scholarship, cloaked in all kinds of other rewards, scholarships, and grants.

    While the analogy doesn't quite fit, imagine the University of Missouri opting to join the MIAA. How many out of 100 conference championships do you think they would win as the flagship university for the state of Missouri? Obviously they would have no business being in the MIAA, and University of St. Thomas has no business being in D3 or D2 for that matter. They have plenty of freight to play FCS at a minimum and likely STILL dominate. They need to find a sandbox that they aren't too big for. Not that big a deal.
    6,000 enrollment. They are about the size of most MIAA/LSC schools.

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