Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 31

Thread: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Mid Atlantic
    Posts
    635
    Contribute to D2
    Rep Power
    1265

    Default UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    So Britz indicated that they are looking to get to 14 schools within 2-3 years and 16 in 4-6 years.

    So who do you want to see added?

    Who do you expect to be added?

    10 football teams? 12? Silo schedule thoughts?

  2. #2

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    For the outsiders like me, what are the big historical/distinguishing/functional differences between the CC and the SAC (and their member schools)? When you look at a map, the two conferences seem to occupy the same basic geographical footprint and seem to be made up of roughly similar institutions. I remember Wikipediaing it a few weeks ago and I think one conference was comprised of private schools with enrollment of 750 to 3500 and one the other was comprised of private schools with enrollment of 1000 to 3500. I know that SAC has football, but other that that, what would be the driver for a school to move from one to the other? Just curious.

  3. #3

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    BTW - part of my asking about CC and SAC is that the G-MAC has Trevecca in Nashville. They have never been a geographic fit for the conference. At one point, it looked like a few NAIA schools between them and the rest of the conference might go NCAA, possibly filling the void. However, after a few D2 rejection letters, that ship sailed. I have to think that they have (or should have) wandering eyes at this point. They don't have football, and I'm not necessarily thinking that the SAC would have interest in them. However, if the SAC is going to add up to 4 more schools, it might create openings in the conferences that the new SAC schools come from.

    So, in addition to my basic intrigue regarding the dynamic of two small/private-school conferences sharing a footprint, there is the above issue too.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Mid Atlantic
    Posts
    635
    Rep Power
    1265

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBlood View Post
    For the outsiders like me, what are the big historical/distinguishing/functional differences between the CC and the SAC (and their member schools)? When you look at a map, the two conferences seem to occupy the same basic geographical footprint and seem to be made up of roughly similar institutions. I remember Wikipediaing it a few weeks ago and I think one conference was comprised of private schools with enrollment of 750 to 3500 and one the other was comprised of private schools with enrollment of 1000 to 3500. I know that SAC has football, but other that that, what would be the driver for a school to move from one to the other? Just curious.
    Originally, the SAC had only football playing schools and all of the similar non-football schools were in CC. That changed in 2006 when LMU moved over from the Gulf South and opened the way to non-football schools. Anderson, arguably the best of CC at the time moved over in 2010. Coker and Queens followed in 2013. Limestone will now be the fourth CC school to move over to the SAC. No SAC school has moved to CC. In fact, four schools have ever left the SAC, Elon, Gardner-Webb, Presbyterian all went DI and Brevard went DIII. No school has left for another DII conference (Not for the lack of the GSC trying when the Arkansas schools bolted).

    The Limestone AD cited two main reasons. First, travel. He indicated that the SAC footprint was more compact. He specifically cited the 300 mile trips to Chowan and Mount Olive (interestingly, not Barton that is only slightly shorter). But, I can't imagine that the travel is all that different between the two conferences.

    Second, the AD indicated that the overall quality of the SAC is superior to that of the CC. His quote is below:


    “When we went to the (Carolinas-Virginia Conference), that was a tremendous fit for us at that time,” Cerino said. “We’re thankful. The relationships have been great. But as we continue to develop, we want to give our student-athletes an elevated experience. When we’re on the road, we’re going to be in better locker rooms and better stadiums. We’re going to have better championship experiences. The goal was to align ourselves with schools that have similar missions academically, athletically and institutionally. We’ve done that and we’re very excited.”



    Whether that is correct, or not, I don't know. I've only been to a couple CC schools. I do remember years ago I was chatting with a Barton fan and asked the same question you are asking. He said the SAC is just run better. But that was years ago.

    The threat of a CC football conference may have been the threat to push them into the SAC. Its hard to argue that being in a football conference with (Barton, Chowan, Erskine, North Greenville, and possibly UNC-Pembroke) is more appealing than being in the SAC. I think that may have been enough to overcome being one of (if not the best) in the CC in almost every sport (with those automatic qualifers).

    As to Trevecca. They are just too far out there. While the SAC did sponsor their application, it was more of a favor. They are more likely to get an invite from the GSC than the SAC.

    I just don't know if the SAC is looking to get to 10 or 12 football schools. That will help figure out who the next school is and which rumors that are circulating are true.
    Last edited by cneagle99; 04-12-2019 at 06:41 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    2,337
    Rep Power
    293615

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    One factor that's not mentioned very much is the fact that back when Conference Carolina's implemented the standard that each member fully fund their programs to the NCAA recommended level for participation at the Division 2 level, several schools bolted. This move was based more on economical reasons than anything else. Now, Limestone may have been given an exemption in reaching that funding level with their new football program (as an Independent), but with the overall expense to maintain their football, with the move, they can now cut back on fully funding their other programs. So, economically, the move to the SAC makes pretty good sense.

  6. #6

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    Thanks for the background.

    Quote Originally Posted by cneagle99 View Post
    The threat of a CC football conference may have been the threat to push them into the SAC.
    That makes a lot of sense to me. Not exactly on point, but close - I remember when Penn State started playing D1 hockey (becoming the 6th B1G school playing the sport), some of the B1G hockey schools weren't too happy that the B1G by-laws required them to leave their traditional hockey conferences so that the B1G could sponsor the sport. They all complied, but there was grumbling for awhile.

    Quote Originally Posted by cneagle99 View Post
    As to Trevecca. They are just too far out there.
    Unfortunately for them, they aren't close to anybody. There isn't a D2 closer than 2-hours from them - in any direction (and the couple schools in the 2-3 hour range aren't in a common direction or a common conference). They would be an "outpost" in any conference. When they transitioned to D2, a lot of folks thought that additional (and closer to Trevecca) NAIA's would transition right after them. It just never happened. I do think that if the SAC picks up extra schools, it might create opportunities elsewhere for them. In our conference, my school (Cedarville) is their second-shortest trip at 5 hours.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    God's Country- between Buffalo Lake & Hector
    Posts
    46,792
    Rep Power
    1000000

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBlood View Post
    Thanks for the background.



    That makes a lot of sense to me. Not exactly on point, but close - I remember when Penn State started playing D1 hockey (becoming the 6th B1G school playing the sport), some of the B1G hockey schools weren't too happy that the B1G by-laws required them to leave their traditional hockey conferences so that the B1G could sponsor the sport. They all complied, but there was grumbling for awhile.
    The grumbling has never stopped. Gopher home games are about half full. Things aren't going to go back to the old days but people just don't show up anymore. And it isn't just at Minnesota that they feel that way.

  8. #8

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by laker View Post
    The grumbling has never stopped.
    I could have guessed. Poor wording on my part.

    Sorry SAC folks for hijacking your thread with discussion on the lack of D2s in central TN and northern hockey.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Mid Atlantic
    Posts
    635
    Rep Power
    1265

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBlood View Post
    I could have guessed. Poor wording on my part.

    Sorry SAC folks for hijacking your thread with discussion on the lack of D2s in central TN and northern hockey.
    No worries. Nothing about the GMAC really turned out the way people thought it would. Unfortunately, for Trevecca, they appear to be the big loser while everyone else made out pretty well.

    One of my buddies went to Cederville.

    To answer your question about Trevecca the only domino I see possibly moving for a space to open for Trevecca to leave the GMAC would be for Lee or Shorter to move to the SAC and I don’t foresee that happening. But if it does, Trevecca May get a Gulf South invite.

    Otherwise, Trevecca needs football to go GSC.
    Last edited by cneagle99; 04-13-2019 at 05:31 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    2,337
    Rep Power
    293615

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by cneagle99 View Post

    Second, the AD indicated that the overall quality of the SAC is superior to that of the CC. His quote is below:

    “When we went to the (Carolinas-Virginia Conference), that was a tremendous fit for us at that time,” Cerino said. “We’re thankful. The relationships have been great. But as we continue to develop, we want to give our student-athletes an elevated experience. When we’re on the road, we’re going to be in better locker rooms and better stadiums. We’re going to have better championship experiences. The goal was to align ourselves with schools that have similar missions academically, athletically and institutionally. We’ve done that and we’re very excited.”
    LOL, I asked my Limestone fan, supporter, and friend about this, and laughed and said "what was the AD suppose to do, tell the truth and say that this move as a strategic economical move to help keep the football program propped up financially, while now having the opportunity and ability to cut funding for other athletic programs? What CC comparison football stadium and championship experience did the football program actually have, NGU? Adding, as soon as we start seeing cuts to our highly successful lacrosse program, along with the elimination of non-SAC sponsored athletic programs, the $^!)s's gonna hit the fan". So, it's clear that this move did not have unanimous support from the 'other' sport's coaches, players or fans.

    On a personal note, and as I've advocated in the past, I would like to see the SAC implement a minimum standard that any new conference additions in football must support their D2 football program with at least 25 scholarships, instead of no minimums (déjà vu - Brevard) presently in place. Again, on a positive note, I'm glad to see this move increase the overall SAC conference academic averages as a whole.
    Last edited by Eagle74; 04-14-2019 at 10:23 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    To get back to the original question....I think Erskine and Barton are very strong possibilities. I remember Charlie Young telling us at a Bears club meeting several years ago that that Doug Echols had discussions with a ODAC school about moving up to join the SAC. I think it fell flat back then but I from what Charlie said there was strong interest from both sides. I haven't given up on the SAC adding Chowan even though they seem happy as the red headed step child of the CIAA
    Da Bears

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Denton County, TX
    Posts
    10,933
    Rep Power
    172486

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ursidae View Post
    To get back to the original question....I think Erskine and Barton are very strong possibilities. I remember Charlie Young telling us at a Bears club meeting several years ago that that Doug Echols had discussions with a ODAC school about moving up to join the SAC. I think it fell flat back then but I from what Charlie said there was strong interest from both sides. I haven't given up on the SAC adding Chowan even though they seem happy as the red headed step child of the CIAA
    In football, perhaps that's a way to describe Chowan, but they will be moving to CC next season. Chowan football remaining in the CIAA is mutually beneficial since, short of the CIAA plucking Benedict from the SIAC, they probably won't be moving to the SAC for football anytime soon. Also, Murfreesboro, N.C. isn't exactly in the SAC's football footprint, if I'm reading the maps correctly.
    Cal U (Pa.) Class of 2014

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Mid Atlantic
    Posts
    635
    Rep Power
    1265

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ursidae View Post
    To get back to the original question....I think Erskine and Barton are very strong possibilities. I remember Charlie Young telling us at a Bears club meeting several years ago that that Doug Echols had discussions with a ODAC school about moving up to join the SAC. I think it fell flat back then but I from what Charlie said there was strong interest from both sides. I haven't given up on the SAC adding Chowan even though they seem happy as the red headed step child of the CIAA
    Chowan is going to CC. I know the SAC passed on Chowan once. Pretty sure there would still be opposition.

    I also heard about an ODAC school a while back.

    Erskine and Barton would be good from a football perspective, but not really sure what Erskine brings beyond location and a football team. And Barton is pretty far out there for the western teams.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Somewhere in the Carolinas
    Posts
    2,692
    Rep Power
    25309

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by cneagle99 View Post
    Chowan is going to CC. I know the SAC passed on Chowan once. Pretty sure there would still be opposition.

    I also heard about an ODAC school a while back.

    Erskine and Barton would be good from a football perspective, but not really sure what Erskine brings beyond location and a football team. And Barton is pretty far out there for the western teams.
    I agree as it relates to Barton and Chowan. Both are fairly far in Eastern NC which would make for some long trips for the Western members of the SAC.

    As it relates to the ODAC some of those schools have more than enough money to fund a D2 program if they ever wanted to move up. I have always felt Guilford College would be the perfect member for the SAC, and wouldn't be surprised to see them move up sooner or later. I'd also love to see Washington & Lee move up at some point, but based off of their location I'm assuming they would only be a good fit for the MEC.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    2,337
    Rep Power
    293615

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by LegalRam View Post
    I agree as it relates to Barton and Chowan. Both are fairly far in Eastern NC which would make for some long trips for the Western members of the SAC.

    As it relates to the ODAC some of those schools have more than enough money to fund a D2 program if they ever wanted to move up. I have always felt Guilford College would be the perfect member for the SAC, and wouldn't be surprised to see them move up sooner or later. I'd also love to see Washington & Lee move up at some point, but based off of their location I'm assuming they would only be a good fit for the MEC.
    I agree, Guilford College would be a very good fit for the SAC. Their academic requirements fall in line with the other SAC schools. Guilford College's endowment stands at around 70 million, which would rank higher than most SAC institutions. Their athletic facilities, including their new astro turf field, look like pretty adequate fits for the SAC. Ironically, until Britz decides to change minimum requirements for athletics including football in the conference, even though Guilford College is D3, they could immediately move to D2 as part of the SAC without any additional mandated scholarship funding. I've advocated for changes with the minimums to be made for years now, but with the existing standards in place, there's lots of opportunities for regional D3 programs to easily transition over to the SAC.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Mid Atlantic
    Posts
    635
    Rep Power
    1265

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by LegalRam View Post
    I agree as it relates to Barton and Chowan. Both are fairly far in Eastern NC which would make for some long trips for the Western members of the SAC.

    As it relates to the ODAC some of those schools have more than enough money to fund a D2 program if they ever wanted to move up. I have always felt Guilford College would be the perfect member for the SAC, and wouldn't be surprised to see them move up sooner or later. I'd also love to see Washington & Lee move up at some point, but based off of their location I'm assuming they would only be a good fit for the MEC.
    Guilford would be a good add. I’ve also heard Ferrum mentioned.

    If they do add Barton, I hope they look to another school west of the mountains. If they want 10 football schools King might be a choice, if they want 12 football schools Union and Cumberlands just across the KY line would fit in well for a western division for the non-football sports.

  17. #17

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    (realized my post was wrong, but I can't delete it...)

  18. #18

    Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by cneagle99 View Post
    Guilford would be a good add. I’ve also heard Ferrum mentioned.

    If they do add Barton, I hope they look to another school west of the mountains. If they want 10 football schools King might be a choice, if they want 12 football schools Union and Cumberlands just across the KY line would fit in well for a western division for the non-football sports.
    Cumberlands was a rival of Lincoln Memorial and Carson-Newman during their NAIA days. Nice campus and athletic facilities having passed them on I-75 several times recently. They would be a great fit as a SAC member. Geography works since it's less than hour past LMU and just an hour up 75 from Knoxville. Not sure that they would split from their Kentucky Baptist sister schools Georgetown and Campbellsville.

  19. Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by dodger View Post
    Cumberlands was a rival of Lincoln Memorial and Carson-Newman during their NAIA days. Nice campus and athletic facilities having passed them on I-75 several times recently. They would be a great fit as a SAC member. Geography works since it's less than hour past LMU and just an hour up 75 from Knoxville. Not sure that they would split from their Kentucky Baptist sister schools Georgetown and Campbellsville.
    I could be mistaken, but didn't Cumberlands apply for NCAA status a few years back, and get denied? I thought they were on the radar of the GMAC in their early stages before the exodus of the GLIAC.

  20. Default Re: UVA-Wise; Limestone; Who’s Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by dodger View Post
    Cumberlands was a rival of Lincoln Memorial and Carson-Newman during their NAIA days. Nice campus and athletic facilities having passed them on I-75 several times recently. They would be a great fit as a SAC member. Geography works since it's less than hour past LMU and just an hour up 75 from Knoxville. Not sure that they would split from their Kentucky Baptist sister schools Georgetown and Campbellsville.
    https://kwcpanthers.com/news/2013/8/...807134712.aspx I found this

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •