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Thread: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

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    Default Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    As many had predicted, the new NC Promise Tuition Plan has two Division 2 school's enrollment booming. This new Program is proving to be a huge success that benefits both the selected schools along with students who can now better afford to attend college. A side benefit for the schools have been applicants with overall higher SATs and higher academic achievement averages / levels. Also, with the higher enrollments, the schools benefit from higher University of North Carolina System funding allocations for programs, housing, classrooms, and other projects.

    https://newsroom.ecsu.edu/early-numb...p-and-growing/

    http://www.dailyadvance.com/News/201...ment-hike.html

    https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nc/cha...ord-enrollment

    http://www.uncp.edu/news/unc-pembrok...ord-enrollment
    Last edited by Eagle74; 03-08-2019 at 11:23 AM.

  2. Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    I thought this was a gimmick and it wouldn't really work in favor of boosting enrollment to HBCUs but I'm glad I'm wrong. It's a GREAT deal. $500 per semester. Wow. That's less than community college.

    When I first heard of this during the CIAA tournament, I did some research but I never could find out how is NC able to fund this. Does anyone know? The professors I'm sure are not taking a pay cut.

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    The State Senate approved the program based on increased revenue brought in through the state's educational budget. With it's success, elected officials on both sides of the isle are now in full support. Who knows, hopefully they may eventually open the door back up for a couple of schools which turned down the initial offer due to skepticism.

    This program basically saved ECSU from having to eventually close their doors within a couple of years, and now they're prospering, to which we all should be very glad.

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    As long as it is successful it will be hard for the legislators on either side of the aisle to pull the funding so I hope they continue to fund. Appears to be doing what they hoped...getting more students into schools.

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    Quote Originally Posted by OGramball3r View Post
    As long as it is successful it will be hard for the legislators on either side of the aisle to pull the funding so I hope they continue to fund. Appears to be doing what they hoped...getting more students into schools.
    You're right! Hopefully we will see WSSU be able to change their stance and ask to now be included. WSSU's enrollment in 2010 was 6,333 (larger than UNCP at that time) and now in 2019 it's down to 4,741. Based on recent numbers, at this rate UNCP will be twice the size of WSSU in a matter of just two to three years. WSSU, it's clear that you should let your voices be heard now on this matter, and let the Legislators know that you need to be included ASAP!

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle74 View Post
    You're right! Hopefully we will see WSSU be able to change their stance and ask to now be included. WSSU's enrollment in 2010 was 6,333 (larger than UNCP at that time) and now in 2019 it's down to 4,741. Based on recent numbers, at this rate UNCP will be twice the size of WSSU in a matter of just two to three years. WSSU, it's clear that you should let your voices be heard now on this matter, and let the Legislators know that you need to be included ASAP!
    I don't know where you got your facts from about WSSU's enrollment, but the Admissions office at the university itself has current enrollment at 6,442, far from the number you quoted.

    https://wssu.libguides.com/c.php?g=82473
    Last edited by gsutiger2002; 03-12-2019 at 07:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    Is this NC Promise expected to expand to other non-Power Five universities? ASU, ECU, FSU, NCCU, UNC-Asheville, UNC-Charlotte, UNC-Greensboro, UNC-Wilmington, WSSU?

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle74 View Post
    You're right! Hopefully we will see WSSU be able to change their stance and ask to now be included. WSSU's enrollment in 2010 was 6,333 (larger than UNCP at that time) and now in 2019 it's down to 4,741. Based on recent numbers, at this rate UNCP will be twice the size of WSSU in a matter of just two to three years. WSSU, it's clear that you should let your voices be heard now on this matter, and let the Legislators know that you need to be included ASAP!

    In 2010, WSSU had not yet abandoned our push to be D1. The enrollment was certainly growing with the goal of being fully D1 compliant. What still troubles me, Eagle74 is the two vastly different commentaries from the links you provided. UNCP, wholeheartedly attributes their growth to the measure, yet ECSU makes only one mention of it as the "start" of the new program. Wisdom has shown that with legislative Educational measures there is "always' a honeymoon period before the hammer drops. I am still unconvinced, if there are five or more continious cycles of growth across the system and the legislature doesn't make any changes, then maybe I'll reconsider, but for me it is still way too early and a hard NO.
    Last edited by WSSU1996; 03-12-2019 at 01:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    I stand corrected, the student population at WSSU is around 5,098 (still a big drop from 6,333). http://www.collegetuitioncompare.com.../winston-salem.

    ECSU is now proudly running television spots all across the state touting the successful NC Promise Program, and stating the more affordable cost of attending college there. It wouldn't surprise me to see ECSU double in size within 5 years (or less).

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    Quote Originally Posted by gsutiger2002 View Post
    I don't know where you got your facts from about WSSU's enrollment, but the Admissions office at the university itself has current enrollment at 6,442, far from the number you quoted.

    https://wssu.libguides.com/c.php?g=82473
    I went to the link you provided and checked the 10 year (total) enrollment column and it pretty much proved that I was right. The last time WSSU's enrollment was close to 6,442 was 10 years ago, back in 2009 at 6,427

    https://www.wssu.edu/about/assessmen...-yr-enroll.pdf


    Year / Enrollment: 2009 - 2010 - 2011 - 2012 - 2013 - 2014 - 2015 - 2016 - 2017 - 2018
    Total Enrollment:: 6427 - 6333 - 6163 - 5689 - 5399 - 5220 - 5107 - 5151 - 5098 - 5190

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    Eagle you and I have gone back and forth on this matter for the better part of a year, and my stance still stays the same. ECSU needed this plan in the worst way, but I don't believe the other colleges needed this.

    Currently you have UNCP, Western Carolina, and ECSU on the plan. While I don't believe Western and UNCP needed the plan, I do see the benefit in pumping additional students into these counties that are underserved by industries. If I'm not mistaken UNCP is located in one of the poorest, if not poorest county in the state. About the only big money maker near Western Carolina are the two Harrah's casinos and some tourism. About the only thing in Elizabeth City is a Coast Guard base. So from a state economic growth perspective I see how quick growth to those schools could be needed. WSSU and FSU fought their way out the plan, and both cities currently have other industries attracting new residents to the respective areas.

    “All three NC Promise institutions are in historically under-served parts of North Carolina. UNC Pembroke and Elizabeth City State University are both historically minority-serving institutions. This program is a targeted intervention that lifts up the communities and families who need it most,” she said (Western Carolina's Chancellor).

    I can't deny the savings, but again I will point out that this only applies to tuition, all other fees and expenses go unchecked. So at the end of the day an in state student is looking at an annual savings of about $2,600, not bad but not earth shattering either https://www.uncp.edu/about/nc-promis...sked-questions

    It's also to be noted that out of state students are actually receiving a greater benefit then in state students. So from a strategic factor I see why this makes sense for the three schools: Western is less then 2 hours from Greenville SC, a little over 2.5 hours to Atlanta, and about 2 hours from Knoxville. ECSU is like an hour from the Tidewater VA area. UNCP is right across the boarder from the Florence, SC area. Having a competitive rate to attract out of state students was a smart idea for those schools. About the only significant out of state metro area that WSSU could draw from would be the Roanoke VA area.

    From WSSU's perspective I am fine for a few reasons:
    1. We currently have our highest enrollment since 2014.
    2. We saw a 9.5% increase in graduate school enrollment.
    3. We have had 3 consecutive years of our Freshmen enrollment exceeding 900 students.
    4. We need to grow strategically instead of a large mass at one time; therefore, we have a plan to get to 6,000 that involves continued on campus construction.
    5. We don't have to grow just to grow. Look at UNC Ashville, that school is perfectly fine staying small.

    Interesting thing about FSU. Their Freshmen enrollment number dropped by 52 students; however, the average GPA of those students was vastly higher than the year before. So it looks like FSU went the quality over quantity route. https://www.uncfsu.edu/faculty-and-s...ent-enrollment

    My last issue with the whole plan is that it's based on the NC general assembly reimbursing the schools to "make up" for the lower tuition. I am extremely cautious about this potential annual line item vote and what happens if there is ever a decision to do away with the reimbursements. We have to also consider that this is the same group of people who have publicly toyed with the idea over shutting down/merging schools over the past decade.

    As Beachinlaker asked, outside of the initial 5 schools there was no talk about expanding the program to the other state supported schools. If this thing is so great why not extend to the flagship schools of UNC or NCSU? ECU and UNCC are already big, but why not go the route of schools like Central Florida and South Florida and try to grow those schools to 40k undergrads? Boone isn't exactly a booming metropolis, why not continue to grow that area by pumping more students into that town with lower tuition? Wilmington is right on the border of SC, you could try and battle with Coastal Carolina for SC students. What about NC A&T and UNCG, you could turn Greensboro into a college town and easily have a combined 50k students in that area if they lowered tuition. Can't forget our former CIAA cousin in NCCU who unfortunately wasn't "selected" for the great opportunity, but who along with A&T were giving some nice full ride scholarships as hush money not to stand with WSSU and FSU during our outcry (https://www.northcarolina.edu/schola...it-scholarship).
    Last edited by LegalRam; 03-14-2019 at 10:53 AM.

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    Legal, Legal, Legal, my friend!
    Check the records, even though WSSU's present enrollment may be slightly higher than it was in 2014, the fact remains that the schools total enrollment has dropped around 20% in the past 10 years from a high of 6,427 down to around 5,190. That's a loss of 1,237 students (almost ECSU's total enrollment a couple of years ago). Now, contrast that to ECSU's growth of around 20% in just one year. If ECSU keeps up that pace, they will actually surpass WSSU in total enrollment numbers in around 7 years or so from now.

    This NC Promise Program is helping a lot of underprivileged people, and yes I've traveled around Winston Salem, and there's thousands of potential students who would really benefit from such a program (as would WSSU). Poverty is poverty, no matter where you live in NC. Now if you're still against the program as trends continue over the next 5 years or so, well, that would defy simple logic and prove that in some cases stubbornness still persist and stands in the way of potential prosperity when it's crystal clear;)

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    How do all of this effect athletic programs?

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    Quote Originally Posted by callen2525 View Post
    How do all of this effect athletic programs?
    I have little doubt that you will see more and more transfers taking advantage of the opportunity of a more complete athletic scholarship package based on the D2's max of 1/2 free ride, and the other 1/2 being more affordable.

    The growing excitement of a fast growing university will positively effect game attendance, tailgating, along with much broader walk-on talent opportunities.

    Also, as part of the University of North Carolina System, a growing enrollment positively effects additional state funding, which aside from academics, building allocations, programs, it also spills over to athletics. Simply put, higher enrollments = a larger slice of the pie.

    In my opinion, the opponents and activist who pushed so hard for some of the schools to reject the N.C. Promise opportunity really should look back and realize what an injustice that they not only did for the schools they convinced to turn it down, but also to the thousands and thousands of potential underprivileged students that will not be able to utilize the program at those schools.

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle74 View Post
    Legal, Legal, Legal, my friend!
    Check the records, even though WSSU's present enrollment may be slightly higher than it was in 2014, the fact remains that the schools total enrollment has dropped around 20% in the past 10 years from a high of 6,427 down to around 5,190. That's a loss of 1,237 students (almost ECSU's total enrollment a couple of years ago). Now, contrast that to ECSU's growth of around 20% in just one year. If ECSU keeps up that pace, they will actually surpass WSSU in total enrollment numbers in around 7 years or so from now.

    This NC Promise Program is helping a lot of underprivileged people, and yes I've traveled around Winston Salem, and there's thousands of potential students who would really benefit from such a program (as would WSSU). Poverty is poverty, no matter where you live in NC. Now if you're still against the program as trends continue over the next 5 years or so, well, that would defy simple logic and prove that in some cases stubbornness still persist and stands in the way of potential prosperity when it's crystal clear;)
    Let me give you the facts about WSSU's lower enrollment since 2010:

    -Early 2000's UNC System identified WSSU as a focused growth campus with a targeted enrollment of 8000 by 2016.

    -WSSU's enrollment jumped from 2500 to 6500 in about 6-8 years.

    -While the student body exploded, the infrastructure did not. There was no funding to match the increase. So there were "on-campus" students living in hotels in 2010. Many faculty had to move around to 2 or 3 different buildings to instruct courses. Staff positions were not increased in proportion to the growth. So service and retention suffered.

    -The Chancellor at that time Donald Reaves put the brakes on the enrollment and told the System Office that we were going back to enrollment of 5000-5500 and enrollment would increase as the infrastructure - residence halls, classroom space, etc. - became available.

    While we would certainly prefer to be closer to 5500 students at this time, BY NO MEANS is 6500 students our measuring stick. 2010 is a great example of how disconnected Raleigh and Chapel Hill can be.

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    Very interesting that WSSU has taken on what amounts to a non-growth policy which is very contrary to other progressive state supported schools in the state.

    I'm sure that attitude really helps the state's UNC System annual funding folks determine where additional funds for classrooms, dorms, labs, etc, etc, should (and shouldn't) be directed between the schools.

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle74 View Post
    Very interesting that WSSU has taken on what amounts to a non-growth policy which is very contrary to other progressive state supported schools in the state.

    I'm sure that attitude really helps the state's UNC System annual funding folks determine where additional funds for classrooms, dorms, labs, etc, etc, should (and shouldn't) be directed between the schools.
    You got it, especially considering that WSSU currently is in the process of building $100 million worth of new buildings. https://www.wssu.edu/about/news/arti...-building.html

    New dorm opened this year, to go along with another dorm that was built a few years ago. New Science building should be done soon.

    And o yeah state law makers must really hate the right sized WSSU. Especially when a result of the right size was better quality students, and our students having the highest average starting salaries for the whole system right after the right size plan kicked in. https://www.journalnow.com/news/loca...774d16c1b.html

    Also, you know WSSU really doesn't care about the underserved that's why we didn't want in the reduced tuition..... https://www.wssu.edu/about/news/arti...ying-jobs.html

    Eagle tell us more doom gloom stories about how WSSU is so far behind and won't get any funding from the state. Also, I just don't know how little old UNCA can even survive based off of your mentality......
    Last edited by LegalRam; 03-23-2019 at 06:43 AM.

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    Hey, I'm really glad to see that WSSU got some funding for some much needed new buildings and dorm from the state's UNC System's multi billion funds.

    https://www.northcarolina.edu/sites/..._priorites.pdf

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    Default Re: Two NC Division 2 school's Enrollment Booming

    Quote Originally Posted by LegalRam View Post

    Eagle tell us more doom gloom stories about how WSSU is so far behind and won't get any funding from the state. Also, I just don't know how little old UNCA can even survive based off of your mentality......
    No doom gloom stories about WSSU. But it's now crystal clear that the NC Promise Program would have benefited a lot of students in the Triad. In reference to UNC Asheville, it's much different than the others, it's the only designated liberal arts institution in the University of North Carolina system, and is harder to get into than WSSU. UNCA's average SAT is 1145, while WSSU's is 890. Simply put, it's the designated artsy artsy state supported school.

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    WSSU intentionally went smaller to increase quality.

    WSSU has the highest retention rate of all HBCU's and UNCP in the UNC System.

    https://www.wunc.org/post/unc-system...al-composition

    https://www.wssu.edu/about/news/arti...ince-2014.html

    WSSU is gradually increasing enrollment and quality.

    Also 62 percent of WSSU new enrollees have WSSU as their firstv choice compared to 42 percent in 2014.

    UNCP us likely getting bigger due to Soldiers taking advantage of the tuition rate.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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