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Thread: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

  1. #141

    Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    But losses do have consequences when it comes to playoff selection points. I've read here were people are scratching their heads why the selection committee "got it wrong" seeding WLU ahead of VA State who they correctly point out had the same W/L % and a better PI.
    But then it also shows that the committee is weighing factors like strength of schedule (where it does matter who you play in the non-con) and not relying strictly on PI. SOS is probably also why FSU is getting some potentially undeserved love from the committee.

  2. #142

    Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrub View Post
    But then it also shows that the committee is weighing factors like strength of schedule (where it does matter who you play in the non-con) and not relying strictly on PI. SOS is probably also why FSU is getting some potentially undeserved love from the committee.
    My only theory with FSU is they didn't want them No. 7 and an all-MEC 2 vs. 7 game. Perhaps it's a coincidence but there are no 'conference' games in Round 1.

    How Fairmont is ahead of Notre Dame is just baffling.

    The reason I thought VSU would pass WL is just simply because they won their conference tournament and WL did not. Many years that would break a tie. However, VSU's schedule was just pretty bad (as it turned out).

    I will say the Fairmont 'love fest' didn't do WL any favors as a potential rematch with ND looms in Round 2.

  3. Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    We were told that WLU playing tomato cans to open the season was the reason they lost in the first round of the tourney the last two years. Well now that that has been addressed, we should be stronger right? We were assured that playing tough games to open the season in November would make us a much stronger team in March!!

    So what did playing two tough games to open the season really do for WLU? Based on the season records of Kutztown and WCU, WLU earned 27 PI points (6 for the Kutz loss and 21 for the WCU win). Had WLU played two easy games as they typically have done to start the season, they probably would have gotten 30 PI points (15 for each home W). Math that out and you come up with 15.89 at the end of the regular season playing Kutz and WCU vice a PI of 16.00 if they had played easy opening opponents. That would have put them ahead of VA State that finished the regular season at 15.93.

    But PI is not the only selection criteria that went down based on their opening game loss vs a supposed "better" team. WLU finished the year 26-4 for a W/L and In Region W/L of .867. Playing two tomato cans would probably have resulted in a 27-3 record which would have been good for a .900 W/L and In Region W/L. Again, clearly ahead of VA State.

    So long and short, the two "tough" games to open the season cost WLU .11 PI point, .033 W/L and .033 In Region W/L.
    I won’t speak to what you were told because I personally never told you any of those things. Perhaps this year WL could’ve played two weak opponents on opening weekend and remained ahead of VSU. The argument can be made from a strictly mathematical standpoint as you’ve done. But hindsight is always 20/20. Predicting how the rest of the region will play out when putting your schedule together is impossible. WL saw a need to upgrade their schedule based on being slotted lower than usual the last couple regionals and they did so. And when you sit as the #2 seed after not winning your conference tournament and having the same number of losses as the 3 seed, it’s hard to say it didn’t work out for them.

  4. #144

    Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Norris View Post
    I won’t speak to what you were told because I personally never told you any of those things. Perhaps this year WL could’ve played two weak opponents on opening weekend and remained ahead of VSU. The argument can be made from a strictly mathematical standpoint as you’ve done. But hindsight is always 20/20. Predicting how the rest of the region will play out when putting your schedule together is impossible. WL saw a need to upgrade their schedule based on being slotted lower than usual the last couple regionals and they did so. And when you sit as the #2 seed after not winning your conference tournament and having the same number of losses as the 3 seed, it’s hard to say it didn’t work out for them.
    Well said, Chuck.

  5. #145
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    Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Norris View Post
    I won’t speak to what you were told because I personally never told you any of those things. Perhaps this year WL could’ve played two weak opponents on opening weekend and remained ahead of VSU. The argument can be made from a strictly mathematical standpoint as you’ve done. But hindsight is always 20/20. Predicting how the rest of the region will play out when putting your schedule together is impossible. WL saw a need to upgrade their schedule based on being slotted lower than usual the last couple regionals and they did so. And when you sit as the #2 seed after not winning your conference tournament and having the same number of losses as the 3 seed, it’s hard to say it didn’t work out for them.
    But that's what people are saying...No WAY WLU should be above VA State. VA State has the SAME W/L %, a stronger PI number as well as winning their conference tourney. Had we played our typical schedule, this argument would be largely moot.

    We'll see if these first two games make them stronger in the tourney.

  6. #146

    Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    Had we played our typical schedule, this argument would be largely moot.
    The argument is already moot. The committee rewarded the schedule. End of story.

  7. #147

    Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrub View Post
    The argument is already moot. The committee rewarded the schedule. End of story.
    I think Boat is having a one-on-one argument with ... Boat.

  8. #148
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    Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    I think Boat is having a one-on-one argument with ... Boat.
    The argument is not over as we only have one side. Remember, one of the reason often trotted out for playing a tough opening schedule was that it makes you stronger in March. The proof provided was that WLU had lost in the first round the last two years (ignored were the 10 years before that when WLU had many E8, Final Four and NC game appearances playing a weak opening schedule). As I said, this year will be a perfect lab experiment into weather playing two tough games to open the season does indeed make you better in the NCAA Tourney...Doesn't seem to have helped in the MEC Tourney!

  9. #149

    Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    The argument is not over as we only have one side. Remember, one of the reason often trotted out for playing a tough opening schedule was that it makes you stronger in March. The proof provided was that WLU had lost in the first round the last two years (ignored were the 10 years before that when WLU had many E8, Final Four and NC game appearances playing a weak opening schedule). As I said, this year will be a perfect lab experiment into weather playing two tough games to open the season does indeed make you better in the NCAA Tourney...Doesn't seem to have helped in the MEC Tourney!
    Either way, you won't get the answer you want. Too many other variables. This team is MUCH younger than those teams that had a run of success in tournament play with much more veteran rosters. In my opinion, this team is a year ahead of schedule. If you would have asked me in October whether I thought this was a 4-loss team, I would have said no way. At that point, I would have thought it a 6- or 7-loss team that would be fighting to make the tourney. With the combination of their youth and the league having caught up a bit, this did not appear to be a year for a deep tourney run (regardless of non con schedule). So, your "experiment" will not be truly complete even if they get bounced by ESU. A good non con schedule can certainly battle-test a team, but it can't make Freshman and Sophomores more experienced. Nothing but experience can. Your experiment will likely be more true to form next year (provided they play another difficult non con schedule).

  10. #150
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    Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrub View Post
    Either way, you won't get the answer you want. Too many other variables. This team is MUCH younger than those teams that had a run of success in tournament play with much more veteran rosters. In my opinion, this team is a year ahead of schedule. If you would have asked me in October whether I thought this was a 4-loss team, I would have said no way. At that point, I would have thought it a 6- or 7-loss team that would be fighting to make the tourney. With the combination of their youth and the league having caught up a bit, this did not appear to be a year for a deep tourney run (regardless of non con schedule). So, your "experiment" will not be truly complete even if they get bounced by ESU. A good non con schedule can certainly battle-test a team, but it can't make Freshman and Sophomores more experienced. Nothing but experience can. Your experiment will likely be more true to form next year (provided they play another difficult non con schedule).
    This "WLU must play a tougher schedule if they hope to succeed" has been a drum beat for a segment of this board. They use the last two years as "proof" that this is a fact while ignoring the 10 years before that when the Toppers had a great deal of success playing an easy early schedule...In fact, their success over that period is better than most (all?) SR1 teams. Why do you suppose these fans of other SR1 teams want WLU to play a tough early schedule? Is it that they truly want WLU to be even tougher when it comes playoff time? I think not...I think their desire is to get WLU an extra loss or perhaps two which would make them less likely to be in the discussion for hosting the Regional Championship which increases the chances of the Regionals being held either in their gym or in another gym that they are more comfortable playing in.

  11. Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    But that's what people are saying...No WAY WLU should be above VA State. VA State has the SAME W/L %, a stronger PI number as well as winning their conference tourney. Had we played our typical schedule, this argument would be largely moot.

    We'll see if these first two games make them stronger in the tourney.
    I doubt that the coach and AD at West Lib are nearly as sensitive about anti WL sentiment (real or imagined) on this message board as you are. The committee rewarded them for upgrading their schedule. I don’t think they care if we all agree with the seed they got (I had no issue with it)

    And it doesn’t matter how many times you direct the whole “let’s see if the first two games make them stronger in the tourney” thing at me. It won’t change the fact that I’ve never made that argument. Ever. I’ve only ever argued that improved scheduling would help their seeding because it’s not a two team region anymore.

  12. #152

    Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Are we really still talking about West Liberty losing to Kutztown in the first week of November?


    Ben's (actual) comments on their schedule:

    "We're definitely excited about the challenges we'll be facing on our schedule this season," Howlett said. "We open against two NCAA Tournament caliber teams on back-to-back nights and go to Tennessee in December to play another NCAA Tournament team on their home floor.
    "When you play in a league as competitive as the Mountain East Conference, those are the types of teams you have to play to get ready for league play."

  13. #153
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    Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    This "WLU must play a tougher schedule if they hope to succeed" has been a drum beat for a segment of this board. They use the last two years as "proof" that this is a fact while ignoring the 10 years before that when the Toppers had a great deal of success playing an easy early schedule...In fact, their success over that period is better than most (all?) SR1 teams. Why do you suppose these fans of other SR1 teams want WLU to play a tough early schedule? Is it that they truly want WLU to be even tougher when it comes playoff time? I think not...I think their desire is to get WLU an extra loss or perhaps two which would make them less likely to be in the discussion for hosting the Regional Championship which increases the chances of the Regionals being held either in their gym or in another gym that they are more comfortable playing in.
    That was not my drumbeat about scheduling tougher opponents...It had nothing to do with them "hoping to succeed", they've been really really successful without tough opening games.....The reason I wanted them to play tougher teams was to see how they stack up...and it's more fun to watch WCU vs WL than WL vs Cheyney...

    Will the game they played vs Kutz or WCU make them infallible vs ESU?, no way...BUt it gave them a tougher more competitive opening weekend...nothing more nothing less... And may have even helped them get the 2 seed..but it's such a tired tired argument that Boat wants creampuffs on the schedule.....
    ENOUGH...

  14. #154

    Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by JDonAB92 View Post
    Not trying to change the topic, but is Shawn Rine no longer writing for the Wheeling paper? I know a lot of papers in WV have gone with a lot of change lately.
    He is no longer there (as of a couple weeks ago).

  15. #155
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    Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Just released this morning about Wheeling Jesuit and their financial situation:

    https://wtov9.com/news/local/wheelin...ncial-exigency

    This all comes after the big diocese contribution last year. Not a good situation at all, and I wonder how athletics will be affected?

  16. #156
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    Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Attendance for the 3 WLU MEC Tourney games...2600, 2800 and 3800.

    Not bad Wheeling...not bad at all!!

  17. #157

    Default Re: 2019 Mountain East Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by JDonAB92 View Post
    Just released this morning about Wheeling Jesuit and their financial situation:

    https://wtov9.com/news/local/wheelin...ncial-exigency

    This all comes after the big diocese contribution last year. Not a good situation at all, and I wonder how athletics will be affected?
    Hopefully Danny's infamous checking account still has some money in it.

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