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Thread: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    Cheyney's record of PSAC MBB basketball championships will never be surpassed. It is a shame what has become of that storied program too.

    Give IUP a decade...

  2. #22

    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPNation View Post
    Give IUP a decade...
    And the turtle wins the race? IUP has 9 championships in 67 years. I'll give IUP two decades, and they will still be in second place.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Quote Originally Posted by Horror Child View Post
    The Board of Governors unanimously selected Dr. Michelle Howard-Vital to be president of Cheyney in 2007, a post she held until her retirement from there in 2014. She was appointed by the state, so perhaps she is the thief or incompetent individual that shipfbfan12 was referring to? She died this past August from cancer at the age of 66 after serving as provost and interim president at another HBCU in Florida.
    I'm sure her motives were pure, as were Armenti's and Atwater's at other universities. In my view, it has more to do with the people chosen by these leaders, and the standards those people are held to.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    And the turtle wins the race? IUP has 9 championships in 67 years. I'll give IUP two decades, and they will still be in second place.
    Well...this year could be 10 and then we only need 5 more...and considering we have one of the best arenas in D2 and well...we are IUP....it shouldn't take that long to get 5 more.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPNation View Post
    Well...this year could be 10 and then we only need 5 more...and considering we have one of the best arenas in D2 and well...we are IUP....it shouldn't take that long to get 5 more.
    Conference tornaments are fluff and rarely the best team wins. The best team earns it all season. Yet, routinely some jabroni team gets red hot for one week. The next tournament is the real one. That's the Big Dance. These conference tournaments sell extra tickets and generate some revenue. The Little Dance. In a world of everybody getting trophies the conference tournament in the PSAC rewards teams with 9-17 records a postseason game.

    Most of those schools refer to them as 'playoff games'. Many just go on the road one more time and get their brains bashed yet again. But, in the first round several lower seeds get to host a game and generally get their biggest crowd of the year. Follow the money.

    It gives teams who suck all year the chance to have a magical couple days -- and, it happens a lot.

    To name a conference champion after one weeks' play as opposed to a whole seasons worth of work is a farce. Reference what's (again) happening in the CIAA. Shaw was under .500 and may cut down nets tonight. Go figure.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Conference tornaments are fluff and rarely the best team wins. The best team earns it all season. Yet, routinely some jabroni team gets red hot for one week. The next tournament is the real one. That's the Big Dance. These conference tournaments sell extra tickets and generate some revenue. The Little Dance. In a world of everybody getting trophies the conference tournament in the PSAC rewards teams with 9-17 records a postseason game.
    Most of those schools refer to them as 'playoff games'. Many just go on the road one more time and get their brains bashed yet again. But, in the first round several lower seeds get to host a game and generally get their biggest crowd of the year. Follow the money.
    It gives teams who suck all year the chance to have a magical couple days -- and, it happens a lot.
    To name a conference champion after one weeks' play as opposed to a whole seasons worth of work is a farce. Reference what's (again) happening in the CIAA. Shaw was under .500 and may cut down nets tonight. Go figure.
    Ok, but all sports crown champions based on who wins the tournament at the end of the season. Can you imagine a world without season ending tournaments? Whoever has the best record after 16 NFL games is the champion. That would be a lot of fun.

    As far as PSAC BB goes we have a East and a West regular season champ, right? Everybody knows that you want to peak at the right time. It's the drama of the competition when the championship is on the line. Sure, for the top teams might give more weight to the NCAA tournament but the PSAC's are the conference tournament. It's always good to win your conference, IMO.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    Ok, but all sports crown champions based on who wins the tournament at the end of the season. Can you imagine a world without season ending tournaments? Whoever has the best record after 16 NFL games is the champion. That would be a lot of fun.

    As far as PSAC BB goes we have a East and a West regular season champ, right? Everybody knows that you want to peak at the right time. It's the drama of the competition when the championship is on the line. Sure, for the top teams might give more weight to the NCAA tournament but the PSAC's are the conference tournament. It's always good to win your conference, IMO.
    Sure. Nice to win. Fancy trophy, etc.

    That said watching a 9-17 team get lucky for 3 days in early March, be declared champs and then steal an automatic NCAA bid from a deserving team .... no thanks.

    These tournaments are great for business (likely why they exist). Even at this level, IUP will jam in a huge crowd to watch them likely beat UPJ for a third time this Wednesday night. One night is worth 3,000 tickets, concessions, beer, etc.

    Ask any coach if it's harder to win the regular season or a tournament. Every one will say the regular season is WAY harder.

    Money is the reason the real Big Dance (D1) just keeps growing.

    I realize the odds of a 9-17 PSAC winning next week are near slim and none.

    To me, and just my opinion, at least make the cut-off a .500 record.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    Ok, but all sports crown champions based on who wins the tournament at the end of the season. Can you imagine a world without season ending tournaments? Whoever has the best record after 16 NFL games is the champion. That would be a lot of fun.

    As far as PSAC BB goes we have a East and a West regular season champ, right? Everybody knows that you want to peak at the right time. It's the drama of the competition when the championship is on the line. Sure, for the top teams might give more weight to the NCAA tournament but the PSAC's are the conference tournament. It's always good to win your conference, IMO.
    Yes, all sports have tornaments. But, the NFL doesn't have TWO tournaments. They have one playoff tournament at the end of the season. Only the top teams get invited.

    I like the idea of the PSAC Final Four Weekend if they must have one. Top two in the east and top two in the west. But, that cuts out a lot of revenue.

    Just my opinion. Does IUP really need to play UPJ or Seton Hill for a third time this Wednesday?

  9. #29

    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    That said watching a 9-17 team get lucky for 3 days in early March, be declared champs and then steal an automatic NCAA bid from a deserving team .... no thanks.
    A lot of people think that's great.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Yes, all sports have tornaments. But, the NFL doesn't have TWO tournaments. They have one playoff tournament at the end of the season. Only the top teams get invited.

    I like the idea of the PSAC Final Four Weekend if they must have one. Top two in the east and top two in the west. But, that cuts out a lot of revenue.

    Just my opinion. Does IUP really need to play UPJ or Seton Hill for a third time this Wednesday?
    Isn't the post regular season PSAC Championship game just a condensed tourney?

  11. #31

    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Just my opinion. Does IUP really need to play UPJ or Seton Hill for a third time this Wednesday?
    IMO, sometimes it seems repetitive but that's just the way it is. I don't see any workaround for it. In the NFL you can end up playing a division rival 3 times in a season, 2 in the regular season and again in the PO's. I'm following PIAA wrestling right now and wrestlers can meet up on 3 successive weekends; once in the districts, the following week in the regionals, and next week in the states. That happens all the time.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    IMO, sometimes it seems repetitive but that's just the way it is. I don't see any workaround for it. In the NFL you can end up playing a division rival 3 times in a season, 2 in the regular season and again in the PO's. I'm following PIAA wrestling right now and wrestlers can meet up on 3 successive weekends; once in the districts, the following week in the regionals, and next week in the states. That happens all the time.
    Good point. At least college basketball doesn't have 3 or 7 games series like pro baseball or basketball.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line


  14. #34

    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    I guess they only give you one freebie. Now I can't read it unless I subscribe.

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    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Judging by this article maybe Cheyney finally has put the right person in charge to lead them out of the pit of financial hell. If he can pull alumni together for a fundraiser of some sort to put up a few million bucks towards their debt as well as keep their accreditation in November they may very well rise back from the dead. 1500+ applicants is pretty good considering the school itself is only enrolling less than 800 currently. I also like that he has stated they can't rely strictly on state appropriations and federal money they have to generate revenue and money other ways. If they somehow could add programs most other state schools don't have like Architecture & Engineering they'd definitely increase their profile while raising their enrollment numbers

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Quote Originally Posted by shipfbfan12 View Post
    Judging by this article maybe Cheyney finally has put the right person in charge to lead them out of the pit of financial hell. If he can pull alumni together for a fundraiser of some sort to put up a few million bucks towards their debt as well as keep their accreditation in November they may very well rise back from the dead. 1500+ applicants is pretty good considering the school itself is only enrolling less than 800 currently. I also like that he has stated they can't rely strictly on state appropriations and federal money they have to generate revenue and money other ways. If they somehow could add programs most other state schools don't have like Architecture & Engineering they'd definitely increase their profile while raising their enrollment numbers
    To me that's the only way to survive as a 4-year school. There is renewed interest in HBCUs which might be reason for the uptick in applications, deposits, etc.

    1,500 applications is good but most schools plan to enroll only 20% of who they accept. But even then, that's looking like an eventual enrollment increase. They need to learn how to get and stay at the 1,200 to 1,500 level to be able to stay afloat given the financial albatrosses that come with PASSHE.

    Money alone won't save their accreditation if they can't prove they have the internal controls to see that it is managed appropriately. Otherwise, they're in the same boat of small HBCU Bennett College.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    To me that's the only way to survive as a 4-year school. There is renewed interest in HBCUs which might be reason for the uptick in applications, deposits, etc.

    1,500 applications is good but most schools plan to enroll only 20% of who they accept. But even then, that's looking like an eventual enrollment increase. They need to learn how to get and stay at the 1,200 to 1,500 level to be able to stay afloat given the financial albatrosses that come with PASSHE.

    Money alone won't save their accreditation if they can't prove they have the internal controls to see that it is managed appropriately. Otherwise, they're in the same boat of small HBCU Bennett College.
    No matter how good the new president is, it will be a difficult job. A couple things have to happen.

    1. Focus on the most popular programs, and try to grow and diversify these to fit their local market. Actually, a killer pre-med program would be good, since pre-med is wildly popular, it doesn't require a traditional department or real advanced sciences, and could be connected with multiple programs that serve under represented populations - add some scholarships and a link to the honors college, and they could get alot of students that might otherwise go to another PASSHE school for the same major. New programs always sound great, but the time required to implement them through PASSHE, and the new faculty expertise it would require is a costly and slow process. A common mistake at PASSHE schools is to try to use local expertise for these new programs, it doesn't often work, and you get things like engineering programs without anyone teaching who has ever worked as an engineer or is licensed as an engineer.
    2. Big donations to support scholarships - infrastructure takes too much time, scholarships come right back into the school operating budget through tuition.
    3. Figure out who the staff heros and who the staff deadweight is, and reassign them to where they do the most good, or do the least damage depending - this may be a difficult or impossible task depending on current situation - remember it is very very hard to let go of staff at PASSHE schools. THis is a big one since normally you find money to hire new staff, and give the problem a new title, and an office without a window in the basement until they retire or leave.
    4. They will need to do something big to give the accrediting agencies a reason to extend their accreditation until they can turn things around - maybe the Chancellor or even the governor could have a talk with the agency.
    5. I really hope he works this out at Cheney, the school has done alot of good, and could do alot more.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    I am not sure that Cheyney controls its own destiny. They can make changes to programs, mission, etc. but they need external help. A lot of it. First of all they need continued sympathy. They need to be good salespeople. Primarily, though, I think they need the corporate partners. The ones they have on board and additional relationships.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    I am not sure that Cheyney controls its own destiny. They can make changes to programs, mission, etc. but they need external help. A lot of it. First of all they need continued sympathy. They need to be good salespeople. Primarily, though, I think they need the corporate partners. The ones they have on board and additional relationships.
    Sounds good but what do they have to offer in return? Corporate sponsors want some return on that dime. Quite a mess.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Cheyney Gets a Temporary Life Line

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    I am not sure that Cheyney controls its own destiny. They can make changes to programs, mission, etc. but they need external help. A lot of it. First of all they need continued sympathy. They need to be good salespeople. Primarily, though, I think they need the corporate partners. The ones they have on board and additional relationships.
    Totally agree. I think one thing that will help is to get them out from the APSCUF contract. They need more independence and less state-level red tape dictating how they must do things (obviously as long as its ethical and legal).

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