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Thread: OT: Robert Kraft

  1. #21

    Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Norris View Post
    Dig a little deeper into Belichick’s tenure in Cleveland. Or just watch the NFL Network A Football Life on the 95 Browns. He was building something there with a pretty incredible staff of coaches and front office talent. They were a playoff team in 94 and a trendy Super Bowl pick in 95 and were off to something like a 5-1 or 5-2 start. And then the move to Baltimore became public and it all fell apart. If Art Modell hadn’t pulled the rug out from under everyone, who knows how things would’ve wound up.
    5-2 start? Try 3-4 after seven games. But I do concur that the 1995 season has to be taken out of the equation for everything that happened that year. A complete train wreck. But still, Belicheat had four full seasons to transform the Browns into a winner. He took them to the postseason in 1994 where they were served as shark bait for the Steelers in the divisional round. Please remember that the Browns were only a year removed from making the AFC title game three out of four years when he took over in 1991. He did not inherit a 2-14 team like Bill Walsh did in the late 1970s.

    Let's also recall that Belicheat went a glorious 5-11 in his first year with the Cheatriots. They were only a few years removed from a SB appearance and several playoff appearances. What changed so drastically from 2001 and on? Um, spygate. It might have given him a freakin' huge advantage to steal teams signals and to tape the other team's walk through like he is said to have done prior to SB 36 against the Rams. More than one Steelers player has remarked how the Cheatriots were actually calling out exactly what play they were going to run once they saw what formation they were in.

    The NFL should have stripped them of those first three SBs that they "won." It was utter crap.

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  2. Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP CRIMSON HAWKS View Post
    5-2 start? Try 3-4 after seven games. But I do concur that the 1995 season has to be taken out of the equation for everything that happened that year. A complete train wreck. But still, Belicheat had four full seasons to transform the Browns into a winner. He took them to the postseason in 1994 where they were served as shark bait for the Steelers in the divisional round. Please remember that the Browns were only a year removed from making the AFC title game three out of four years when he took over in 1991. He did not inherit a 2-14 team like Bill Walsh did in the late 1970s.

    Let's also recall that Belicheat went a glorious 5-11 in his first year with the Cheatriots. They were only a few years removed from a SB appearance and several playoff appearances. What changed so drastically from 2001 and on? Um, spygate. It might have given him a freakin' huge advantage to steal teams signals and to tape the other team's walk through like he is said to have done prior to SB 36 against the Rams. More than one Steelers player has remarked how the Cheatriots were actually calling out exactly what play they were going to run once they saw what formation they were in.

    The NFL should have stripped them of those first three SBs that they "won." It was utter crap.

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    You’re right it was a 3-1 start, I misremembered. You’re also right that Belichick didn’t inherit a 2-14 team. They were 3-13 in 1990. Still, that documentary is worth a watch.

    As far as the rest, clearly as IUP24 stated, you’ll never take off your black and gold blinders so this is kinda pointless. It’s bitter Yinzer nonsense that actually makes the Patriots continued success kinda fun to watch. 9 Super Bowl appearances and 6 championships in 19 years. If you can’t respect that kind of consistent greatness on some level there isn’t much else to say.

  3. Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Norris View Post
    You’re right it was a 3-1 start, I misremembered. You’re also right that Belichick didn’t inherit a 2-14 team. They were 3-13 in 1990. Still, that documentary is worth a watch.

    As far as the rest, clearly as IUP24 stated, you’ll never take off your black and gold blinders so this is kinda pointless. It’s bitter Yinzer nonsense that actually makes the Patriots continued success kinda fun to watch. 9 Super Bowl appearances and 6 championships in 19 years. If you can’t respect that kind of consistent greatness on some level there isn’t much else to say.
    Yes, but that was just one bad year on the heels of some incredible success that the franchise experienced in the previous four years. AFC title game appearances in 1986, 1987, and 1989. A couple of real heartbreakers they lost there as well. The 49ers were a complete and utter train wreck before Walsh got there. There is NO comparison between the two.

    I believe that Bud Carson (former architect of the Steel Curtain defense) was the Browns head coach in 1989-1990. Not sure what happened in '90 to fall so badly.

    The Browns of course move to Baltimore in 1996 and became the Ravens. Ozzie turned in some great draft cards that spring when he tabbed Jon Ogden and Ray Lewis both on the first round thus setting them off towards a SB title four years later.

    As I said earlier---the debate on the team from Boston is pretty pointless when there is such a vast difference in opinions. Everyone can feel how it is that they feel on the subject. I have no problem with that. I guess the one point that I was merely making is that their "accomplishments" are badly tainted. I do have to wonder what their legacy will really be?

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  4. Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP CRIMSON HAWKS View Post
    Yes, but that was just one bad year on the heels of some incredible success that the franchise experienced in the previous four years. AFC title game appearances in 1986, 1987, and 1989. A couple of real heartbreakers they lost there as well. The 49ers were a complete and utter train wreck before Walsh got there. There is NO comparison between the two.

    I believe that Bud Carson (former architect of the Steel Curtain defense) was the Browns head coach in 1989-1990. Not sure what happened in '90 to fall so badly.

    The Browns of course move to Baltimore in 1996 and became the Ravens. Ozzie turned in some great draft cards that spring when he tabbed Jon Ogden and Ray Lewis both on the first round thus setting them off towards a SB title four years later.

    As I said earlier---the debate on the team from Boston is pretty pointless when there is such a vast difference in opinions. Everyone can feel how it is that they feel on the subject. I have no problem with that. I guess the one point that I was merely making is that their "accomplishments" are badly tainted. I do have to wonder what their legacy will really be?

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    Yeah, “badly tainted” is definitely a matter of opinion. To me, the only thing that brings any of their accomplishments into question is spygate. And even with that, Cowher’s teams always gagged in home AFC title games so there’s no real certainty that the results of those games would’ve been any different. Cowher even said during Super Bowl week that everybody stole signals but the only difference was the Patriots used video to record them while everybody else just wrote them down. To my knowledge, the recording of the Rams walkthrough was never proven. I’ll stand corrected if it was.

    Deflategate was much ado about nothing in my opinion, the tuck rule was the correct call of a lousy rule.

    I think this Super Bowl started to sway a lot of even the most ardent Patriot haters toward respect. It was even a big topic on 93.7 during Super Bowl week. At some point you have to tip your hat to the fact that this team has been really good for a really long time.

  5. #25
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    Default OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Norris View Post
    Yeah, “badly tainted” is definitely a matter of opinion. To me, the only thing that brings any of their accomplishments into question is spygate. And even with that, Cowher’s teams always gagged in home AFC title games so there’s no real certainty that the results of those games would’ve been any different. Cowher even said during Super Bowl week that everybody stole signals but the only difference was the Patriots used video to record them while everybody else just wrote them down. To my knowledge, the recording of the Rams walkthrough was never proven. I’ll stand corrected if it was.

    Deflategate was much ado about nothing in my opinion, the tuck rule was the correct call of a lousy rule.

    I think this Super Bowl started to sway a lot of even the most ardent Patriot haters toward respect. It was even a big topic on 93.7 during Super Bowl week. At some point you have to tip your hat to the fact that this team has been really good for a really long time.

    And they aren’t done, Chuck. I think you and I both know that. I wouldn’t rule out Tom Brady winning one more. They way that team adjusts, changes styles, adapts to what their opponent does, etc.

    It’s all coaching. The longer in the tooth this reign of success gets, the more you realize it’s more about Bill than it is about Tom.

    It’s remarkable. Won’t be done again in any sport.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by IUP24; 02-23-2019 at 11:51 PM.

  6. Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    And they aren’t done, Chuck. I think you and I both know that. I wouldn’t rule out Tom Brady winning one more. They way that team adjusts, changes styles, adapts to what their opponent does, etc.

    It’s all coaching. The longer in the tooth this reign of success gets, the more you realize it’s more about Bill than it is about Tom.

    It’s remarkable. Won’t be done again in any sport.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Actually it has already been done bigger and better in sports before with the Celtics of long ago and the UCLA Bruins of the 60s/70s. Maybe you just meant this current era? But I think those teams I mentioned won something like around 10-11 titles. I'd have to look it up.

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  7. Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Norris View Post
    Yeah, “badly tainted” is definitely a matter of opinion. To me, the only thing that brings any of their accomplishments into question is spygate. And even with that, Cowher’s teams always gagged in home AFC title games so there’s no real certainty that the results of those games would’ve been any different. Cowher even said during Super Bowl week that everybody stole signals but the only difference was the Patriots used video to record them while everybody else just wrote them down. To my knowledge, the recording of the Rams walkthrough was never proven. I’ll stand corrected if it was.

    Deflategate was much ado about nothing in my opinion, the tuck rule was the correct call of a lousy rule.

    I think this Super Bowl started to sway a lot of even the most ardent Patriot haters toward respect. It was even a big topic on 93.7 during Super Bowl week. At some point you have to tip your hat to the fact that this team has been really good for a really long time.
    Yeah, unfortunately that is probably correct. Marty Ball!

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  8. #28

    Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP CRIMSON HAWKS View Post
    Actually it has already been done bigger and better in sports before with the Celtics of long ago and the UCLA Bruins of the 60s/70s. Maybe you just meant this current era? But I think those teams I mentioned won something like around 10-11 titles. I'd have to look it up.
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    When I read that I immediately thought of John Wooden's UCLA Bruins.

  9. Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP CRIMSON HAWKS View Post
    Actually it has already been done bigger and better in sports before with the Celtics of long ago and the UCLA Bruins of the 60s/70s. Maybe you just meant this current era? But I think those teams I mentioned won something like around 10-11 titles. I'd have to look it up.

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    The comment was that it won’t be done again. That’s a good bet. Obviously, basketball is the sport where a long dynasty run is the “easiest” as a couple all time great players can keep a team near the top for quite a while.

    Even still, it’s a totally different animal when we’re talking about almost 2 full decades at or near the top of a sport like football with only the coach and quarterback remaining constant. It really is an amazing achievement.

  10. #30

    Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP CRIMSON HAWKS View Post
    Actually it has already been done bigger and better in sports before with the Celtics of long ago and the UCLA Bruins of the 60s/70s. Maybe you just meant this current era? But I think those teams I mentioned won something like around 10-11 titles. I'd have to look it up.

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    The celtics won all those titles when the league was 8 teams. UCLA won a majority of their titles when the NCAA tourney was 16 teams. It's not the same. Both of those instances of title runs by those programs, would not happen even 10-15 years later from when they did happen after all the expansion for both sports. Personal opinion, but those are 2 wildly overrated runs in comparison to teams doing it now a days.

    What the Patriots have been doing the last 2 decades is truly more impressive than either of those 2 runs, and not by a some slim margin either. This comes from a guy who can't stand them as well.

  11. #31

    Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP CRIMSON HAWKS View Post
    Actually it has already been done bigger and better in sports before with the Celtics of long ago and the UCLA Bruins of the 60s/70s. Maybe you just meant this current era? But I think those teams I mentioned won something like around 10-11 titles. I'd have to look it up.

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    That UCLA dynasty may have been even more dirty than the Pats.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    That UCLA dynasty may have been even more dirty than the Pats.
    How so?

  13. Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    How so?
    Sam Gilbert

  14. #34

    Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP CRIMSON HAWKS View Post
    Actually it has already been done bigger and better in sports before with the Celtics of long ago and the UCLA Bruins of the 60s/70s. Maybe you just meant this current era? But I think those teams I mentioned won something like around 10-11 titles. I'd have to look it up.
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    For the record, UCLA won 10 national titles between 1964-75. They had a streak of 7 straight between 1967-73. Looked up Sam Gilbert, too. A corrupt donor. How many Sam Gilbert's have there been in college sports? When all was said and done John Wooden essentially said he 'should have done more' about Gilbert. They killed Joe Paterno for that.

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    Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    The NFL made Jerry Richardson sell the Carolina Panthers for a pattern of behavior within his organization. I wonder if Kraft will have to do the same...

  16. Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Kraft allegedly went to the salon Saturday night, then again Sunday morning. Unless the old seadog couldn't finish the first time, that's more admirable than anything his stupid football team has done

  17. #37
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    Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    This thread is comedy gold and it has nothing to do with the Pats or Kraft.

    LMAO!

  18. Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorVoice View Post
    The NFL made Jerry Richardson sell the Carolina Panthers for a pattern of behavior within his organization. I wonder if Kraft will have to do the same...
    That would be nice. But it seems that Kraft owns the league and Goodell is his $40 mil a year b itch. Goodell had all the evidence of Spygate destroyed which was wrong. That scandal was every bit on par with the 1919 Black Sox scandal----and probably much worse.

    Just look at all these calls the Cheatriots have gotten over the years. Tuck Rule? Okay, I guess it was technically on the books but no one had ever heard of that one before Walt Kolman pulled it out of obscurity to save Tom Lady's bacon in that snowy 2002 divisional round game against the Raiders. Remember the time Peyton Manning played the AFC title game up in NE and how his WRs were held all game long and nary a call against the Cheatriots secondary? How two season's ago all the calls that benefited the Cheaters? Jesse James. The Bills game. The Jets game. All bunk and calls that should have gone against them. How about this past AFC title game? A Chiefs DL brushes his hand against Tom Lady's jersey and he gets a 15-yard penalty for it. How about those catches that Edelman and Hogan made late in the contest with the ball touching the ground. Those were calls that likely should have been overturned. How about Edelman's muffed punt? Amazing how they always get these calls.

    I watched about a dozen plays of this past SB in the first quarter. When I saw the one Ram DB deliver a good hard shot that would have had the Cheaters backed up to a 3rd and 20 and then promptly have the refs toss the resquite 15-yard penalty against the Rams, well, that's where I got and turned the television off and went and found something else to do the rest of the evening.

    Kraft is the biggest fraud ever. I guess we see what $6 billion buys you in the NFL.

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    Last edited by IUP CRIMSON HAWKS; 02-26-2019 at 10:42 AM.

  19. Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by RockinTheSnackBar View Post
    Kraft allegedly went to the salon Saturday night, then again Sunday morning. Unless the old seadog couldn't finish the first time, that's more admirable than anything his stupid football team has done
    Isn't it crazy how Kraft is denying all of this when the police actually have video of him doing his thing? These guys are unbelievable. Goodness, there are already descriptions of what took place on the videos being put out there. More lies and more dishonesty from a criminal organization.

    Hopefully they have some good and honest police down in Florida and they don't let him buy his way out of this. That's why the videos should be aired as soon as possible before they suddenly disappear.

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    Default Re: OT: Robert Kraft

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP CRIMSON HAWKS View Post
    Isn't it crazy how Kraft is denying all of this when the police actually have video of him doing his thing? These guys are unbelievable. Goodness, there are already descriptions of what took place on the videos being put out there. More lies and more dishonesty from a criminal organization.

    Hopefully they have some good and honest police down in Florida and they don't let him buy his way out of this. That's why the videos should be aired as soon as possible before they suddenly disappear.

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    Well *he's* not denying it. His lawyer is doing the lying for him. Anything he says publicly can be used against him in court. Always funny how it works out that way. Unless you're an idiot like that Roger Stone guy.
    Last edited by Fightingscot82; 02-26-2019 at 12:02 PM.

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