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Thread: PASSHE - our alma maters

  1. #1

    Default PASSHE - our alma maters

    We can talk about PSAC football all we want but the entire educational system (PASSHE) is in peril. Decades of Republican legislatures have essentially killed it.

    According to the IG article linked below the current state appropriation is 27%, which is "about half of the national average." The article quotes this rep from York who tries to make the counterintuitive point that the cost of attending other (I presume to be private) colleges is actually cheaper than the PASSHE, meanwhile it's his legislative body that has made it that way. Make no mistake this R from York (Saylor) is part of the conservative movement in PA that wants to see public education completely de-funded. It's astounding that in PA people with this mentality can get elected to influential positions.

    The new Chancellor puts forth the concept of supporting enrollment through adult training programs. I have gone further in the past on this board to suggest the PASSHE should literally be merged into the Dept. of Labor. Drastic changes are needed or it's going to die. Also as I predicted this new Chancellor who previously led the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the University fo California system will soon realize you can't work around these ultra-conservative Pennsylvanians and he'll move on. Maybe he looked at this job as a challenge but he'll soon find out it's a dead end.

    https://www.indianagazette.com/news/...d423c5e8b.html
    Last edited by iupgroundhog; 02-13-2019 at 11:01 AM.

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    Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    We can talk about PSAC football all we want but the entire educational system (PASSHE) is in peril. Decades of Republican legislatures have essentially killed it.

    According to the IG article linked below the current state appropriation is 27%, which is "about half of the national average." The article quotes this rep from York who tries to make the counterintuitive point that the cost of attending other (I presume to be private) colleges is actually cheaper than the PASSHE, meanwhile it's his legislative body that has made it that way. Make no mistake this R from York (Saylor) is part of the conservative movement in PA that wants to see public education completely de-funded. It's astounding that in PA people with this mentality can get elected to influential positions.

    The new Chancellor puts forth the concept of supporting enrollment through adult training programs. I have gone further in the past on this board to suggest the PASSHE should literally be merged into the Dept. of Labor. Drastic changes are needed or it's going to die. Also as I predicted this new Chancellor who previously led the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the University fo California system will soon realize you can't work around these ultra-conservative Pennsylvanians and he'll move on. Maybe he looked at this job as a challenge but he'll soon find out it's a dead end.

    https://www.indianagazette.com/news/...d423c5e8b.html
    One of that group - Brad Roae of Crawford County - was recently appointed to the PASSHE board.

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    And yet Temple...is graduating a record sized class.

    Somebody isn’t doing something right in the state system of state related schools have record classes.



    https://6abc.com/5292500/?utm_campai...ource=facebook

  4. #4

    Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    It is difficult to argue state appropriations are the issue, when campuses are building larger athletic facilities, food courts, apartment style living, coffee houses, etc. If the cost of an education was important, the schools should go back to the bare bones system of the sixties and seventies. It seems they are on the right track to compete for students with the privates.

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    I’m not arguing that there aren’t problems with the state system, but PASSHE certainly isn’t alone in this. Here’s a great article from Forbes:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...-villages/amp/


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    There's a significant decline in the population of high school students everywhere but the southern states. Those states are growing due to migration and immigration. The worst declines are in the rust belt and northeast. Western half of PA has 12% fewer high school students than a decade ago. Some areas are down over 20%. Truly national schools are alright but regional schools like PASSHE are suffering. The scary part is that the birth rate is dropping and the demographic shift looks to continue... then a steep drop around 2025. I think that's when we'll see mergers.

  7. Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPNation View Post
    And yet Temple...is graduating a record sized class.

    Somebody isn’t doing something right in the state system of state related schools have record classes.



    https://6abc.com/5292500/?utm_campai...ource=facebook
    Temple has done a very good job improving their campus and reputation over the last 20 years or so. However, I think their success has as much to do with the revival of urban Philly and the young generations increased desire to live in and work in the core of urban areas.

  8. #8

    Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloom Burger View Post
    Temple has done a very good job improving their campus and reputation over the last 20 years or so. However, I think their success has as much to do with the revival of urban Philly and the young generations increased desire to live in and work in the core of urban areas.
    Yep. You have a generation of kids now who need to be entertained 24 hours a day. The city brings that element. Cities provide so much in regard to entertainment -- and for all types of people. Arts, sports, nightlife, music scene, etc.

    Our towns are typically remote, boring dives in the middle of nowhere -- with very little to offer. The best restaurant in some of our towns is Dairy Queen. Spend a weekend at California and try not to find a bridge to jump from.

    The biggest advantage the 'state schools' had for a long time was price. But, that is slowly vanishing as we keep creeping up the scale.

    As FS82 eluded, it's a matter of time until schools start merging. It's just not feasible to have so many.

  9. Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Yep. You have a generation of kids now who need to be entertained 24 hours a day. The city brings that element. Cities provide so much in regard to entertainment -- and for all types of people. Arts, sports, nightlife, music scene, etc.

    Our towns are typically remote, boring dives in the middle of nowhere -- with very little to offer. The best restaurant in some of our towns is Dairy Queen. Spend a weekend at California and try not to find a bridge to jump from.

    The biggest advantage the 'state schools' had for a long time was price. But, that is slowly vanishing as we keep creeping up the scale.

    As FS82 eluded, it's a matter of time until schools start merging. It's just not feasible to have so many.
    Well said. West Chester is arguable the most urban PASSHE campus. There are a myriad of reasons why they are doing well, but location again may be the primary factor.

    Penn State is even struggling a bit relatively speaking. Last I checked apps are down and admission stats aren’t quite what they were 10-20 years ago. They are accepting more marginal students than prior as well. In my central PA home town I’ve observed an increase in kids going to Temple or other urban schools. Kids want action, and are increasingly more aware of intern and job opportunities that are more readily available in densely populated areas.

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    Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloom Burger View Post
    Well said. West Chester is arguable the most urban PASSHE campus. There are a myriad of reasons why they are doing well, but location again may be the primary factor.
    Being an hour outside of Philadelphia, depending on which way you go (202/76; 322/95; West Chester Pike/PA 3), certainly doesn't hurt West Chester.
    Cal U (Pa.) Class of 2014

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    Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Our towns are typically remote, boring dives in the middle of nowhere -- with very little to offer. The best restaurant in some of our towns is Dairy Queen. Spend a weekend at California and try not to find a bridge to jump from.

    As FS82 eluded, it's a matter of time until schools start merging. It's just not feasible to have so many.
    Whether you're talking about merging PASSHE schools or public school districts, you're going to open up a Pandora's Box of rage from elected officials, whether it's the state reps who want to keep their PASSHE school open or from local officials who don't want to give up their "community" identity with a merger, no matter how justified a merger is.
    Cal U (Pa.) Class of 2014

  12. #12

    Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    It is difficult to argue state appropriations are the issue, when campuses are building larger athletic facilities, food courts, apartment style living, coffee houses, etc. If the cost of an education was important, the schools should go back to the bare bones system of the sixties and seventies. It seems they are on the right track to compete for students with the privates.
    The things you mention come out of a capital budget, separate from the state appropriation which is essentially the operating budget. The state appropriation is what determines the financial health of the schools and determines what has to be made up by tuition.

  13. #13

    Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    The things you mention come out of a capital budget, separate from the state appropriation which is essentially the operating budget. The state appropriation is what determines the financial health of the schools and determines what has to be made up by tuition.
    Yes, but the perception by state residents is that tax dollars are going to items the aren't related to education. Besides, many of these extras are paid for by additional student fees for things they may never use, like recreational facilities for non-athletic types. Also, if students can pay for luxury style apartment living, they aren't too concerned about the cost of an education. Tuition was much higher than the cost of room and board when I was a student. Now room, board, and fees have out distanced the cost of tuition.

  14. #14

    Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    Yes, but the perception by state residents is that tax dollars are going to items the aren't related to education. Besides, many of these extras are paid for by additional student fees for things they may never use, like recreational facilities for non-athletic types. Also, if students can pay for luxury style apartment living, they aren't too concerned about the cost of an education. Tuition was much higher than the cost of room and board when I was a student. Now room, board, and fees have out distanced the cost of tuition.
    That's an interesting observation. When I was in school all I needed was that cinderblock-walled dorm room. Amenities didn't mean anything to me. The storyline was that they built these facilities to keep up with the rest of the world and remain competitive on that front. Nevertheless, the decline in the state appropriation is the killer and I don't really think the legislature solicits feedback from the their constituents when doling it out. They just haven't supported it. And if you follow the changes during Democratic and Republican administrations in PA it's like a see-saw. It has come up during Dem administrations but overall it's dropped precipitously. I blame Republicans. It's black and white.

  15. #15

    Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    That's an interesting observation. When I was in school all I needed was that cinderblock-walled dorm room. Amenities didn't mean anything to me. The storyline was that they built these facilities to keep up with the rest of the world and remain competitive on that front. Nevertheless, the decline in the state appropriation is the killer and I don't really think the legislature solicits feedback from the their constituents when doling it out. They just haven't supported it. And if you follow the changes during Democratic and Republican administrations in PA it's like a see-saw. It has come up during Dem administrations but overall it's dropped precipitously. I blame Republicans. It's black and white.
    And, furthermore, in these areas where the PASSHE schools are located and which are so heavily dependent on public education (the PASSHE schools are often the biggest employer in the county) they keep voting for Republicans who keep cutting it. It's counterintuitive.

  16. #16

    Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    And, furthermore, in these areas where the PASSHE schools are located and which are so heavily dependent on public education (the PASSHE schools are often the biggest employer in the county) they keep voting for Republicans who keep cutting it. It's counterintuitive.
    It is my impression, the people who live in PASSHE school counties would be happy to see them close. They detest the liberal egg heads who teach 12 hours a week and make much more than they do working 40 hours. They detest the snot nosed spoiled brat students who bring problems to their neighborhoods. I am not a Republican, but they would agree with the following quote:

    "One of the causes of the downfall of Rome was that people, being fed by the State....ceased to have any responsibility for themselves or their children, and consequently became a nation of wasters." R. Baden-Powell 1908

  17. #17

    Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    It is my impression, the people who live in PASSHE school counties would be happy to see them close. They detest the liberal egg heads who teach 12 hours a week and make much more than they do working 40 hours. They detest the snot nosed spoiled brat students who bring problems to their neighborhoods. I am not a Republican, but they would agree with the following quote:

    "One of the causes of the downfall of Rome was that people, being fed by the State....ceased to have any responsibility for themselves or their children, and consequently became a nation of wasters." R. Baden-Powell 1908
    That's another interesting observation. Fascinating, in fact. From what I've seen on Facebook I think what you say might have validity. On the other hand, most people know people who work there, attend or have attended there, etc. But I think these people in rural PA (and you know I grew up there) don't know what's good for them. They have to come to terms with the fact that they are "the have nots." While they rail against the big cities and how little places like Bloomsburg, Lock Haven, Indiana, etc. are being exploited they don't realize how much they have in common with the urban areas when it comes to state politics. Hate to get so political on here but this is too good and too important to ignore.

  18. #18

    Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    It is my impression, the people who live in PASSHE school counties would be happy to see them close. They detest the liberal egg heads who teach 12 hours a week and make much more than they do working 40 hours. They detest the snot nosed spoiled brat students who bring problems to their neighborhoods. I am not a Republican, but they would agree with the following quote:

    "One of the causes of the downfall of Rome was that people, being fed by the State....ceased to have any responsibility for themselves or their children, and consequently became a nation of wasters." R. Baden-Powell 1908
    Also, in my hometown of Lock Haven, there has always been pretty good town-gown relations. "The college" has always been an integral part of the community. However, I get your point because a lot of people probably see these profs as politically correct libs. Need I say more? I don't think they would be ok with it shutting down, though.

  19. #19

    Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    Also, in my hometown of Lock Haven, there has always been pretty good town-gown relations. "The college" has always been an integral part of the community. However, I get your point because a lot of people probably see these profs as politically correct libs. Need I say more? I don't think they would be ok with it shutting down, though.
    I live in Indiana and also was once a student here so I see both sides.

    I know yesterday was like a yearly holiday in town (when all the students leave). That said, IUP students pump a lot of coin in to the town, and I think most realize it.

    As these Taj Mahal apartments went up, it killed the slumlord market in Indiana. So, the students don't mingle with the locals as much. Few live in the neighborhoods anymore. But, most would prefer they build a huge wall around that campus to segregate it.

    Personally, I think it keeps things lively.
    Last edited by IUPbigINDIANS; 05-12-2019 at 04:43 PM.

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    Default Re: PASSHE - our alma maters

    Also remember that the faculty union (to their credit) have negotiated salaries that are in the 90th percentile with a focus on teaching not research. So the average professor is making in the $80s which is often close to double the median income for the immediate area save the two Chester County schools.

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