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Thread: Incoming Freshman

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    Default Incoming Freshman

    Of your school's incoming Freshman class, how many will redshirt??

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    Default Re: Incoming Freshman

    Quote Originally Posted by WTAMU1975 View Post
    Of your school's incoming Freshman class, how many will redshirt??
    At WT, Coach Hughes said he thought 6 or 7 true freshmen had a chance to contribute this year. That's down from 14 or 15 last year. If that's the case, WT could RS about 50 kids in 2019. That's a great way to build the program. If they can retain 30 or so of those kids (each year) the pipeline is full of kids conditioned to the goals of the program. The only transfers you go after are for specific needs.

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    Default Re: Incoming Freshman

    Preface .. I am brand spanking new to D2 Football. Son just signed with Colorado School of Mines last week so I'm trying to educate myself as much as possible. I am stunned at the number of kids signed by WTAMU. Almost 60 by my count. Mines signed 32 and I thought that was a high number. Mines retained all 27 of this past years Freshman class (came back for Spring semester) and also try to redshirt the entire freshman class each year. Is there a 'retention' problem there? Can they really keep that many true freshman on the roster/campus? How many scholarships does WTAMU have to spread out amongst all the young men on the roster (I would assume it is the same as Mines)? I hope none of these questions come across negatively - I have nothing against WTAMU or any other D2 school for that matter. I am truly trying to learn the D2 Landscape. Mines has 36 Scholarships that they divy up amongst the players with older top performing players getting more than younger unproven players (in general - or that is what we have been told to date). Thanks for reading.

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    Default Re: Incoming Freshman

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasDigger View Post
    Preface .. I am brand spanking new to D2 Football. Son just signed with Colorado School of Mines last week so I'm trying to educate myself as much as
    possible. I am stunned at the number of kids signed by WTAMU. Almost 60 by my count. Mines signed 32 and I thought that was a high number. Mines retained all 27 of this past years Freshman class (came back for Spring semester) and also try to redshirt the entire freshman class each year. Is there a 'retention' problem there? Can they really keep that many true freshman on the roster/campus? How many scholarships does WTAMU have to spread out amongst all the young men on the roster (I would assume it is the same as Mines)? I hope none of these questions come across negatively - I have nothing against WTAMU or any other D2
    school for that matter. I am truly trying to learn the D2 Landscape. Mines has 36 Scholarships that they divy up amongst the players with older top performing players getting more than younger unproven players (in general - or that is what we have been told to date). Thanks for reading.
    WT sort of crashed & burned a few years ago. They are now in yr 2 of a complete rebuild.

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    Default Re: Incoming Freshman

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeTAMUC View Post
    WT sort of crashed & burned a few years ago. They are now in yr 2 of a complete rebuild.
    Ahhh .. OK, then it makes sense if they are in a huge rebuild mode. Thanks!

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    Default Re: Incoming Freshman

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasDigger View Post
    Ahhh .. OK, then it makes sense if they are in a huge rebuild mode. Thanks!
    But that was par for the course for them for years and years under the Carthel administration. TAMUC then took that approach as well.
    I have questions about that style of recruiting, not saying its right or wrong, but when you are signing that many people, how do you divy up the scholarships? Do 80% of them get a $500 scholarship and then rest "walk on" or are other academic environments subsidizing the scholarships?
    I just don't know how to make the numbers work, but I haven't dug into it very deep either.

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    Default Re: Incoming Freshman

    Quote Originally Posted by ASURAM2010 View Post
    But that was par for the course for them for years and years under the Carthel administration. TAMUC then took that approach as well.
    I have questions about that style of recruiting, not saying its right or wrong, but when you are signing that many people, how do you divy up the scholarships? Do 80% of them get a $500 scholarship and then rest "walk on" or are other academic environments subsidizing the scholarships?
    I just don't know how to make the numbers work, but I haven't dug into it very deep either.
    For eastern thats why its good to get in state kids, they qualify for lottery schollies after the first semester. Also Eastern and other NM universities have/had a 1 semester starter grant that covers tuition the first semester. ENMU signed 15 NM kids oit of a class of 55, and only have to divy up what schollership monies they have to out of staters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ASURAM2010 View Post
    But that was par for the course for them for years and years under the Carthel administration. TAMUC then took that approach as well.
    I have questions about that style of recruiting, not saying its right or wrong, but when you are signing that many people, how do you divy up the scholarships? Do 80% of them get a $500 scholarship and then rest "walk on" or are other academic environments subsidizing the scholarships?
    I just don't know how to make the numbers work, but I haven't dug into it very deep either.

    It’s really not that hard. WT has 36 scholarships @$18,000 per year.

    For example, let's say:
    2 full rides worth $18,000 ea
    16 3/4 rides worth $12,000 ea
    24 1/2 rides worth $9,000 ea
    32 1/4 rides worth $4,5000 ea
    20 1/10 rides worth $1,800 ea

    That should add up to 36 scholarship equivalencies spread out among 94 players. And 30 more guys get an opportunity to co0me in and prove themselves. Or they get a cut out of the pie above. Not much, but something, the $500 deal or so.

    You can split a scholarship up many ways. Each scholarship is an equivalency that can be 100% or 1%.

    In addition there is academic aid, Pell grants, etc.
    Last edited by BuffaloChip; 02-11-2019 at 09:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Incoming Freshman

    Quote Originally Posted by BuffaloChip View Post
    It’s really not that hard. WT has 36 scholarships @$18,000 per year.

    Say:
    2 full rides worth $18,000 ea
    16 3/4 rides worth $12,000 ea
    24 1/2 rides worth $9,000 ea
    32 1/4 rides worth $4,5000 ea
    20 1/10 rides worth $1,800 ea

    That should add up to 36 scholarship equivalencies spread out among 94 players.

    You can split a scholarship up many ways. Each scholarship is an equivalency that can be 100% or 1%.

    In addition there is academic aid, Pell grants, etc.
    My guess is that you have more than 2 kids on full rides. Also, I wonder how many football players are receiving no athletic scholarships but are having their tuition paid for by some other area.

    I guess my real question is what kind of pitch are you telling kids about in regards to the type of aid they are going to be receiving? My BIL when he was being recruited was literally offered a $500 bookstore credit, obviously he went else where and was on full scholarship from his 2nd year on.

    I guess its just a preference thing, no right or wrong way to do it. Just curious

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    Default Re: Incoming Freshman

    Quote Originally Posted by ASURAM2010 View Post
    My guess is that you have more than 2 kids on full rides. Also, I wonder how many football players are receiving no athletic scholarships but are having their tuition paid for by some other area.

    I guess my real question is what kind of pitch are you telling kids about in regards to the type of aid they are going to be receiving? My BIL when he was being recruited was literally offered a $500 bookstore credit, obviously he went else where and was on full scholarship from his 2nd year on.

    I guess its just a preference thing, no right or wrong way to do it. Just curious
    It really is a preference thing. Some want to announce they went to school on an athletic scholarship, but to be honest with you, that is not always the best path.

    For example, my son was a swimmer in college at a D2 school in Arkansas. While he could have taken an athletic scholarship, he also qualified, based on grades and his ACT score for a $3,500 academic scholarship.

    So, let's assume that he could have gotten an athletic scholarship of $3,500 instead of the academic one. If he took the athletic scholarship he would have to stay on the team and basically "reapply" each year. If the coach has better prospects next year he could reduce that scholarship or cut it altogether. However, if he takes the academic money, as long as he stays in school and gets the grades, he keeps that no matter what the coaches decides, or even if he decides to quit swimming. The only way he could lose that academic is to not make his grades, and if he didn't do that, there's a good chance he would be out of school anyway so the athletic scholarship would be a moot point anyway.

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    Default Incoming Freshman

    Quote Originally Posted by ASURAM2010 View Post
    My guess is that you have more than 2 kids on full rides. Also, I wonder how many football players are receiving no athletic scholarships but are having their tuition paid for by some other area.

    I guess my real question is what kind of pitch are you telling kids about in regards to the type of aid they are going to be receiving? My BIL when he was being recruited was literally offered a $500 bookstore credit, obviously he went else where and was on full scholarship from his 2nd year on.

    I guess its just a preference thing, no right or wrong way to do it. Just curious

    I was musing hypotheticals.

    When Carthel was HC at WT, for example, QB Dustin Vaughn or Keith Null we’re the only players with a full ride.......if I correctly remember what Don told me. With only 36 rides, you have to be creative and a half brother to King Solomon.
    Last edited by BuffaloChip; 02-11-2019 at 09:18 PM.

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    [QUOTE=BuffaloChip;2351534]

    NM. Duplicate post.
    Last edited by BuffaloChip; 02-11-2019 at 09:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Incoming Freshman

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasDigger View Post
    Preface .. I am brand spanking new to D2 Football. Son just signed with Colorado School of Mines last week so I'm trying to educate myself as much as possible. I am stunned at the number of kids signed by WTAMU. Almost 60 by my count. Mines signed 32 and I thought that was a high number. Mines retained all 27 of this past years Freshman class (came back for Spring semester) and also try to redshirt the entire freshman class each year. Is there a 'retention' problem there? Can they really keep that many true freshman on the roster/campus? How many scholarships does WTAMU have to spread out amongst all the young men on the roster (I would assume it is the same as Mines)? I hope none of these questions come across negatively - I have nothing against WTAMU or any other D2 school for that matter. I am truly trying to learn the D2 Landscape. Mines has 36 Scholarships that they divy up amongst the players with older top performing players getting more than younger unproven players (in general - or that is what we have been told to date). Thanks for reading.
    Mines doesn't yet have 36 scholarships. The RMAC might be at 32 or 34 now as they slowly increase towards the D2 limit of 36

  14. #14

    Default Re: Incoming Freshman

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasDigger View Post
    Preface .. I am brand spanking new to D2 Football. Son just signed with Colorado School of Mines last week so I'm trying to educate myself as much as possible. I am stunned at the number of kids signed by WTAMU. Almost 60 by my count. Mines signed 32 and I thought that was a high number. Mines retained all 27 of this past years Freshman class (came back for Spring semester) and also try to redshirt the entire freshman class each year. Is there a 'retention' problem there? Can they really keep that many true freshman on the roster/campus? How many scholarships does WTAMU have to spread out amongst all the young men on the roster (I would assume it is the same as Mines)? I hope none of these questions come across negatively - I have nothing against WTAMU or any other D2 school for that matter. I am truly trying to learn the D2 Landscape. Mines has 36 Scholarships that they divy up amongst the players with older top performing players getting more than younger unproven players (in general - or that is what we have been told to date). Thanks for reading.
    Just so you won’t be confused by the sugar coating many will feed you. There will be attrition from this freshman class at WT.
    Last edited by Techster88; 02-12-2019 at 09:52 AM.

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    Default Re: Incoming Freshman

    Quote Originally Posted by Techster88 View Post
    Just so you won’t be confused by the sugar coating many will feed you. There will be attrition from this freshman class at WT.
    Sure. Probably half will wash out by the fall of 2020. Some will decide that they just want to be a college student. Some will decide the time and effort necessary to succeed in college football is too high. College FB is like going to school and having a full-time job, 6:30 am weight room takes commitment. Some will recognize that they may not have the ability to earn PT anytime soon. Some will not succeed academically. All kinds of things can happen to cause a player to drop football.

    I just checked the 2018 WT roster. 51 freshmen are listed. How many will be on the roster in the fall of 2019? I recently asked coaches if they had lost many of those freshmen. I was told a solid core of those kids are still on the team. If 35 or so of those 51 return in the fall, that would be really good numbers, about 2/3. We won't know till the final fall roster is published. Spring ball will give us an indication. If you look at the 2018 season, at times WT had 12-13-14 freshmen on the 2 deep chart. I imagine those kids are going to be pumped to return.
    Last edited by BuffaloChip; 02-12-2019 at 10:55 AM.

  16. Default Re: Incoming Freshman

    So, TAMUC signed 52 kids last season...of those 52, they red-shirted 48 of them...and they carried 51 on the roster last season, meaning between signing day and the start of the season one disappeared somewhere....of the 52, there are 44 currently on the roster...some I know transferred after Carthel left...some were planning on transferring even before they found out he was leaving...how many will remain after the spring semester? I dunno, but I would guess that there will be some loses to academic eligibility...and a few more transfers...

    My son was offered more money to go to a GAC school...essentially, he was offered half tuition...to a school in OK...but he really wanted to play for Carthel and his staff...so he took a lot less money to go to TAMUC, but he was told that as long as he stayed with the team and did what he was supposed to do, as players from his signing class fell off, his scholarship would go up in value...new staff, so I guess we will wait and see...how many remain after the semester and what they offer him for his R-Fr season.

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    Default Re: Incoming Freshman

    Quote Originally Posted by spidermac View Post
    So, TAMUC signed 52 kids last season...of those 52, they red-shirted 48 of them...and they carried 51 on the roster last season, meaning between signing day and the start of the season one disappeared somewhere....of the 52, there are 44 currently on the roster...some I know transferred after Carthel left...some were planning on transferring even before they found out he was leaving...how many will remain after the spring semester? I dunno, but I would guess that there will be some loses to academic eligibility...and a few more transfers...

    My son was offered more money to go to a GAC school...essentially, he was offered half tuition...to a school in OK...but he really wanted to play for Carthel and his staff...so he took a lot less money to go to TAMUC, but he was told that as long as he stayed with the team and did what he was supposed to do, as players from his signing class fell off, his scholarship would go up in value...new staff, so I guess we will wait and see...how many remain after the semester and what they offer him for his R-Fr season.
    That's exactly what Hughes and staff are doing at WT, following the Carthel model.

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    Default Re: Incoming Freshman

    Quote Originally Posted by BuffaloChip View Post
    That's exactly what Hughes and staff are doing at WT, following the Carthel model.
    Carthel is SMART. First & foremost he is building HIS career and taking care of his family. His model is GREAT for that. God bless. Smart guy.

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    Default Re: Incoming Freshman

    Quote Originally Posted by BuffaloChip View Post
    That's exactly what Hughes and staff are doing at WT, following the Carthel model.
    A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Get your education paid for, as much as you can.

    If you have good enough grades use those and play where you want. If not go where your worth the most.

  20. Default Re: Incoming Freshman

    Since Carthel has been brought up - he signed 36 at SFA? Are you kidding me? He signed a kid from Frisco (QB) who had 1 offer from Hendrix (D3) that I knew of (good player though). What do you think he got? $500 a semester? He is going to lose a lot of kids - it's D1, they expect full rides at 1AA. Can't wait to see it play out. Kids have been getting FAFSA's and making money - now that will actually be applied to their schooling. Most 1AA's offer only full rides (63 of them) and fill in with walk ons. Can't believe the AD or school President is going to let that go on long term.

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