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Thread: Hardin Simmons to D2?

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    Default Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Friend of mine here in AR says that's what he heard. What are you guys hearing in the lone star state?

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Herb Street View Post
    Friend of mine here in AR says that's what he heard. What are you guys hearing in the lone star state?
    I would be suprised. Why would they?

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    It worked out really well for McMurry!

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoBuffsGo View Post
    It worked out really well for McMurry!
    Hardened sinners has had a bit more success though.

    Now Wayland from what i remember brought back Football specifically cause they wanted to get into D2.

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoBuffsGo View Post
    It worked out really well for McMurry!
    They might want to do their due diligence with that in mind. And that includes the LSC in the event they start a desperate attempt to look for new football members. Two out of the four recent attempts at adding football playing schools didn't work out so well.

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boohaha View Post
    I would be suprised. Why would they?
    Because the playoffs get old? Because they want to be on the wrong end of blowouts?

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoBuffsGo View Post
    It worked out really well for McMurry!
    McMurry was doing ok until someone made a mega bucks investment error.

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Herb Street View Post
    Friend of mine here in AR says that's what he heard. What are you guys hearing in the lone star state?
    Don't have many contacts at Hardin, but one alum I spoke with who is a former player and now supporter said fans have been talking about a move to DII for some time. He knows of no task force or committee in place that is exploring such a move at this time.

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ASUPops View Post
    Don't have many contacts at Hardin, but one alum I spoke with who is a former player and now supporter said fans have been talking about a move to DII for some time. He knows of no task force or committee in place that is exploring such a move at this time.
    Seems like it would be a good fit. Pretty stout season here:


    Last edited by Herb Street; 01-30-2019 at 01:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Herb Street View Post
    Seems like it would be a good fit. Pretty stout season here:


    I am not sure how they fit in the DII recruiting model. I believe it is so difficult for private/religious affilated schools with under 3k students to compete at DII. With total yearly cost to attend around 39k by 2020, it's hard to get 36 schollies funded and get players who can afford the rest.

    Wouldn't they face the same issues as ACU & UIW? Probably even more.

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ASUPops View Post
    I am not sure how they fit in the DII recruiting model. I believe it is so difficult for private/religious affilated schools with under 3k students to compete at DII. With total yearly cost to attend around 39k by 2020, it's hard to get 36 schollies funded and get players who can afford the rest.

    Wouldn't they face the same issues as ACU & UIW? Probably even more.
    Yep.

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ASUPops View Post
    I am not sure how they fit in the DII recruiting model. I believe it is so difficult for private/religious affilated schools with under 3k students to compete at DII. With total yearly cost to attend around 39k by 2020, it's hard to get 36 schollies funded and get players who can afford the rest.

    Wouldn't they face the same issues as ACU & UIW? Probably even more.
    This was the reason that I was okay with what ACU & UIW were trying to sell in their move up. IMO, it wasn't that they thought they were better than everyone else (okay maybe some of the ACU folks did) but it was an attempt to level the playing field due to the huge cost that was being put on most of the athletes at the D2 level. Now they can at least compete for the kids without the kid having to fork over 20K+/ year to attend.

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    It doesn’t “cost” a private school much of anything to “give” a $50K scholarship (or pick your number) to an athlete.

    That is paper money. As long as the school has dorm rooms available and empty chairs in the classes, it costs them basically zero.

    The bookkeeping doesn’t work that way at a public school.

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Herb Street View Post
    It doesn’t “cost” a private school much of anything to “give” a $50K scholarship (or pick your number) to an athlete.

    That is paper money. As long as the school has dorm rooms available and empty chairs in the classes, it costs them basically zero.

    The bookkeeping doesn’t work that way at a public school.
    Since we got rid of the gold and silver standard isnt all money just paper?

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Herb Street View Post
    It doesn’t “cost” a private school much of anything to “give” a $50K scholarship (or pick your number) to an athlete.

    That is paper money. As long as the school has dorm rooms available and empty chairs in the classes, it costs them basically zero.

    The bookkeeping doesn’t work that way at a public school.
    Let me explain somethings to you. The major difference between public universities and private colleges lies in how they are funded. This affects students because funding is tied to tuition prices.

    State governments pay for most of the cost of operating public universities. They also oversee these institutions through appointed boards and trustees.

    This influx of public money is why tuition is lower at a public university. The real cost of an attendance is subsidized. Money raised from tuition doesn’t need to cover all of a public college’s expenses, such as paying faculty.

    Meanwhile, private colleges don’t receive funds from state legislatures. They rely on tuition and private contributions. This means tuition rates and R&B are generally higher.

    I understand you thinking that it costs "nothing" for 100 football athletes to attend a private college, but you could not be more wrong. (SEE ACU/UIW).

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ASUPops View Post
    Let me explain somethings to you. The major difference between public universities and private colleges lies in how they are funded. This affects students because funding is tied to tuition prices.

    State governments pay for most of the cost of operating public universities. They also oversee these institutions through appointed boards and trustees.

    This influx of public money is why tuition is lower at a public university. The real cost of an attendance is subsidized. Money raised from tuition doesn’t need to cover all of a public college’s expenses, such as paying faculty.

    Meanwhile, private colleges don’t receive funds from state legislatures. They rely on tuition and private contributions. This means tuition rates and R&B are generally higher.

    I understand you thinking that it costs "nothing" for 100 football athletes to attend a private college, but you could not be more wrong. (SEE ACU/UIW).
    How universally true is that? I ask since at GV State aid vs tuition is like 18% state aid, balance tuition. I know it can be flipped for other institutions, but in MI that number is all over the map. So at least in MI, the State does not pay for most of the cost.

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redwing View Post
    How universally true is that? I ask since at GV State aid vs tuition is like 18% state aid, balance tuition. I know it can be flipped for other institutions, but in MI that number is all over the map. So at least in MI, the State does not pay for most of the cost.
    with all due respect...I suggest you recheck. MI universities are HEAVILY subsidized. You are talking about aid vs out of pocket tuition. That's NOT apples to apples. The cost to RUN your universities are mostly paid by the State via public funds. You are talking about individuals tuition costs. Nit the same thing.

    In a private college, they do not receive state/public funds and MUST rely on tuition $ and private donations to cover ALL COSTS.

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ASUPops View Post
    with all due respect...I suggest you recheck. MI universities are HEAVILY subsidized. You are talking about aid vs out of pocket tuition. That's NOT apples to apples. The cost to RUN your universities are mostly paid by the State via public funds. You are talking about individuals tuition costs. Nit the same thing.

    In a private college, they do not receive state/public funds and MUST rely on tuition $ and private donations to cover ALL COSTS.
    May be a bit apples and oranges, but in MI.. not really. State aid isn't that much for EVERY school. It's quite a range. If you have different numbers for MI schools, please post. Otherwise, I'm sticking to my premise that in MI, there are public schools that have less than 50% of funds coming from the state. GVSU has LESS THAN 20%!!!

    State Appropriation per Student

    2014-15 2015-16 2016-17 2017-18 2018-19
    Wayne State 8,176 8,455 8,736 8,914 8,990
    Michigan Tech 7,485 7,222 7,399 7,290 7,510
    Lake Superior 5,712 6,075 6,421 6,971 7,247
    U of M-Ann Arbor 6,745 6,844 7,044 7,200 7,014
    Northern 5,362 5,617 5,998 6,385 6,965
    Michigan State 5,819 5,848 5,979 6,076 6,231
    Western 4,898 5,066 5,288 5,494 5,698
    State Average 5,079 5,182 5,345 5,476 5,610
    Ferris 4,022 4,149 4,307 4,420 4,722
    Eastern 3,909 3,953 4,207 4,364 4,603
    Central 3,647 3,883 3,944 4,117 4,327
    Saginaw Valley 3,059 3,193 3,409 3,577 3,867
    U of M-Dearborn 3,543 3,615 3,681 3,748 3,776
    U of M-Flint 3,157 3,164 3,266 3,444 3,662
    Grand Valley 2,835 2,943 3,040 3,087 3,151
    Oakland 2,896 2,831 2,868 2,872 2,957
    Source: HEIDI (two-year lag in FYES)
    P

    And here's a link to funding from the state to each university. I think GV gets like $70 million from the state. GV's general fund budget is about $350 million.

    https://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf...versities.html

    And here are some figures from "about GV" :

    ENDOWMENT AND FUNDING
    $351 million general fund budget

    $275 million in tuition

    $72 million in state appropriations

    $129 million endowment


    So I rechecked. I haven't seen one number from you to support your premise. Please share since apparently I don't know what I'm posting???

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redwing View Post
    May be a bit apples and oranges, but in MI.. not really. State aid isn't that much for EVERY school. It's quite a range. If you have different numbers for MI schools, please post. Otherwise, I'm sticking to my premise that in MI, there are public schools that have less than 50% of funds coming from the state. GVSU has LESS THAN 20%!!!

    State Appropriation per Student

    2014-15 2015-16 2016-17 2017-18 2018-19
    Wayne State 8,176 8,455 8,736 8,914 8,990
    Michigan Tech 7,485 7,222 7,399 7,290 7,510
    Lake Superior 5,712 6,075 6,421 6,971 7,247
    U of M-Ann Arbor 6,745 6,844 7,044 7,200 7,014
    Northern 5,362 5,617 5,998 6,385 6,965
    Michigan State 5,819 5,848 5,979 6,076 6,231
    Western 4,898 5,066 5,288 5,494 5,698
    State Average 5,079 5,182 5,345 5,476 5,610
    Ferris 4,022 4,149 4,307 4,420 4,722
    Eastern 3,909 3,953 4,207 4,364 4,603
    Central 3,647 3,883 3,944 4,117 4,327
    Saginaw Valley 3,059 3,193 3,409 3,577 3,867
    U of M-Dearborn 3,543 3,615 3,681 3,748 3,776
    U of M-Flint 3,157 3,164 3,266 3,444 3,662
    Grand Valley 2,835 2,943 3,040 3,087 3,151
    Oakland 2,896 2,831 2,868 2,872 2,957
    Source: HEIDI (two-year lag in FYES)
    P

    And here's a link to funding from the state to each university. I think GV gets like $70 million from the state. GV's general fund budget is about $350 million.

    https://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf...versities.html

    And here are some figures from "about GV" :

    ENDOWMENT AND FUNDING
    $351 million general fund budget

    $275 million in tuition

    $72 million in state appropriations

    $129 million endowment


    So I rechecked. I haven't seen one number from you to support your premise. Please share since apparently I don't know what I'm posting???
    The last #'s I was told about was something like $130 million in Non-Operating Revenue. Based on 2018 Financial Reports. Is that not accurate?

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    Default Re: Hardin Simmons to D2?

    Assuming they have capacity in the dorms, classrooms, and dining halls, the incremental cost for a private university for “scholarships” is probably 10 cents on the dollar or less.

    If a private school charges Joe Public $50K a year to attend, that does not mean that it actually costs the U. that amount to educate Joe. They are likely banking a chunk of that for endowments to give to other students for scholarships, which go right back into, you guessed it, the school.

    If you are paying a professor $50K a year to teach English, your costs don’t increase because the class size goes from 20 to 30. In fact it costs you nothing. He just has more papers to grade.

    If you have a 100 room dorm, the fixed expenses of keeping that dorm functioning are close to the same, whether it is 80 percent occupied or 100 percent.

    Private schools are in their own world, operating with a very different set of rules.

    There are plenty of private schools out there sporting an endowment of $1 BILLION or more. When Joe Public is awarded a $50K “scholarship”, they aren’t paying him a red cent. Whatever incremental COSTS there are to educate Joe might come out of the endowment. The rest is just Monopoly money.

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