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Thread: IUP Football 2019

  1. #1101

    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    What actually constitutes a good idea for you?
    I've stated many on here. You just don't hear them.

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    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    I totally agree. My disagreements with him are on substantive issues. And that he thinks he's the only person ever who tried to promote IUP football. The truth is there have been a lot of involved people over many years.
    I never once ever suggested that.

    You don't like that myself and BigIndians have repeatedly called out the "old guard" that has been viewed as being resistant to change.

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    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    I've stated many on here. You just don't hear them.
    Accuse me all you'd like.

    You're in charge of marketing for the IUP athletic department. Tell me exactly how you increase student attendance and non-student attendance for football games.

  4. Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    Bingo. Smartest comment I've seen.
    Why thank you - please add rep. It's simply from what I've coined the "Frat Party" model. It's a pretty simple concept that is used by Frats and house parties alike all across the country to ensure great attendance numbers. Studies have shown it's actually transferable to several other areas of life. The IUP athletic program should be no different.

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    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by PSACfan1 View Post
    One potential way to spruce up attendance would be to maybe shift the target demo to specifically females... where the ladies go the boys will follow at more than likely a 10:1 ratio (the ratio being 10 guys for every 1 lady)
    That was something that we tried to accomplish. We tried to tap into the Greek life system to make that work, but it was tougher sledding than we really thought. Mostly every sorority is linked to a fraternity. Where one goes the other goes. We couldn't get enough of either to want to commit to make their Saturday one that essentially revolved around IUP football and that whole idea fell through.

    While it's taboo and potentially career ending to say in 2019, sex appeal sells. When you look at some of the women at Saturday afternoon games in the south (UGA, LSU, Ole Miss, etc.), it's hard to find a bad looking girl on television. The whole "game day dress" thing down there... Yeah, it's different.

  6. Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    That was something that we tried to accomplish. We tried to tap into the Greek life system to make that work, but it was tougher sledding than we really thought. Mostly every sorority is linked to a fraternity. Where one goes the other goes. We couldn't get enough of either to want to commit to make their Saturday one that essentially revolved around IUP football and that whole idea fell through.

    While it's taboo and potentially career ending to say in 2019, sex appeal sells. When you look at some of the women at Saturday afternoon games in the south (UGA, LSU, Ole Miss, etc.), it's hard to find a bad looking girl on television. The whole "game day dress" thing down there... Yeah, it's different.
    For sure, however you fellas could have pivoted to those not associated with Greek Life. I believe it would be tough as you said, those typically in Greek Life are pretty pretentious and are want to be trend setters.. however, with that you give the Greek Life folks the sense, not even the reality of FOMO and I'm sure you could have spun it. Obviously very easy to say in practice difficult to execute but desperate times call for desperate measures.

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    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by PSACfan1 View Post
    For sure, however you fellas could have pivoted to those not associated with Greek Life. I believe it would be tough as you said, those typically in Greek Life are pretty pretentious and are want to be trend setters.. however, with that you give the Greek Life folks the sense, not even the reality of FOMO and I'm sure you could have spun it. Obviously very easy to say in practice difficult to execute but desperate times call for desperate measures.
    The biggest thing that we did was get a girl involved in our marketing efforts. We had her when we went on the radio, and on the student TV shows, etc., to promote the games. It brought a female voice. It helped to a point. We weren't marketing majors though. So from a technique perspective in terms of how to approach that demographic, none of us really knew what more we could do.

    We tried to get IUP to hire marketing students to do social media work for athletics. We presented to them that it would make for great student jobs or internships. They listened to us. Kind of... They hired two girls that passed out free t-shirts at Miller Stadium and the KCAC. That tells you all you need to know.

  8. Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    The biggest thing that we did was get a girl involved in our marketing efforts. We had her when we went on the radio, and on the student TV shows, etc., to promote the games. It brought a female voice. It helped to a point. We weren't marketing majors though. So from a technique perspective in terms of how to approach that demographic, none of us really knew what more we could do.

    We tried to get IUP to hire marketing students to do social media work for athletics. We presented to them that it would make for great student jobs or internships. They listened to us. Kind of... They hired two girls that passed out free t-shirts at Miller Stadium and the KCAC. That tells you all you need to know.
    Well that just goes to show that either A) they don't care about the attendance numbers or B) they don't know what they are doing and/or are lazy.. I'm probably going to guess it's a little bit of both.

  9. #1109

    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    They could play at 8am and serve pancakes in the parking lot. Temperatures may still be too cold but the free pancakes may just get the senior homes rocking.

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    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by PSACfan1 View Post
    Well that just goes to show that either A) they don't care about the attendance numbers or B) they don't know what they are doing and/or are lazy.. I'm probably going to guess it's a little bit of both.
    It's definitely a combination of a couple of factors.

    What you need to understand is that IUP worked really hard to steamroll the "I Usually Party" reputation the school had decades ago. And with some less than stellar news coverage the past couple years, they aren't going to encourage athletic events to be "organized parties." We tried to explain to them that it's not about getting people into the game, it's about getting them to the parking lots or outside the stadium. They were resistant to events where alcohol or potential student debauchery might have occurred. We even provided them with ideas to create a more controlled setting:

    1) Get a local establishment to sponsor a tented tailgate in the parking lot - serve food and alcohol. Charge a flat fee to get in, card people at the door so only 21+ can enter, and control the environment. Reasons why this could not happen:
    A) IUP has a contract with Aramark and they could not work with outside vendors to serve food on IUP grounds for IUP sanctioned events.
    B) IUP is a dry campus, therefore, they can't permit the sale or distribution of alcohol on campus.
    C) They have an alumni reception in the KCAC prior to every home game and they felt that serves the purpose. The event is expensive, boring, and vanilla. They sell alcohol at this event, which makes me question their response that I listed in reason B.

    2) Book some artist to have a pregame concert outside the stadium - use your contracted food vendor, Aramark, and have a fun time with food and live music outside the stadium. Reasons why this could not happen:
    A) Entertainment bookings at IUP are done through either The Entertainment Network (TEN) or Global Marketing (the company that runs the KCAC). Essentially, IUP and the athletic department either can't through some bureaucratic red tape or doesn't want to spend any money in their limited budget booking an artist for a pregame concert.
    B) We approached TEN, which is a student run organization with a university employee that heads it. They use their budget to book other events (homecoming concerts, comedy shows, etc.) and weren't interested in pursuing this.
    C) Global expressed that they didn't have the budget to organize this and also successfully book/plan that year's events at the KCAC. They did bring in Jake Owen that spring, which was an awesome show (so no bad blood there).

    3) Shut down food service in the dining hall for a game (preferably the first game of the season). Utilize Aramark to set up a large student tailgate/meal service during pregame. Make this be the location where students can use their meal plan for their "all you can eat" meal swipe. Cal used to do this all the time for their first home game of the season. It was called "Party in the Park." It worked great there. They didn't eliminate all food options, but they shut down the main dining hall. If you wanted to use your meal plan for an all you can eat meal option during a set time, you had to go to the stadium. If you showed up to eat, you were more inclined to stay for the game. Reasons why this could not happen:
    A) Logistics of needing personnel and equipment to set up the event.
    B) Logistics of needing the proper storage methods for food during the time of the event.

    The reality is that there are many ways things can happen to be improved, but the powers to be at IUP hide behind red tape, contracts, and the "it's not my department" school of thought. FightingScot82 has discussed how a unionized environment has created this. And he's right. Organizing these things are no single person or team of employee's jobs. Because of that, very few employees are going to take the effort needed to improve something they aren't contractually obligated to care about. Groundhog believes that he and I have substantive disagreements, which is essentially saying that we have different views on what reality is. I see where he's coming from - to a point. Only his reality is that people don't show up because IUP has changed since the 1960s, 70s, 80s. He's not wrong about that, but that doesn't have to constitute the norm or create a defeatist attitude.

    Adapt or die. My reality is that IUP doesn't do what's necessary because they don't want to. They need to adapt. Until they do, we'll continue to have this discussion.

  11. Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    My approach is different. I don't make as many assumptions. I test things. That's what I do. I do research to identify what the problems are first and do my best to support that reasoning. Your approach, as near as I can figure out, is that you already have all the answers, you just know more than everybody else. 'Here is the solution', you say. Then you try to ram it down everybody's throat. It seems to me that you didn't succeed in what you were trying to do. And that's ok. But I think you needed to listen more.

    You blame the inability to affect change on others' unwillingness to adapt and/or resistance to the changes that you want to enact. I think this comes through in the language you use. I am referencing your last post.

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    It's definitely a combination of a couple of factors.
    You know what the factors are, definitely? I don't think anybody knows that.

    What you need to understand is ...
    Yes, tell us what we need to understand.

    We tried to explain to them
    They should have understood that you knew what the issues were, definitely.
    Last edited by iupgroundhog; 07-12-2019 at 02:29 PM.

  12. Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    It's definitely a combination of a couple of factors.

    What you need to understand is that IUP worked really hard to steamroll the "I Usually Party" reputation the school had decades ago. And with some less than stellar news coverage the past couple years, they aren't going to encourage athletic events to be "organized parties." We tried to explain to them that it's not about getting people into the game, it's about getting them to the parking lots or outside the stadium. They were resistant to events where alcohol or potential student debauchery might have occurred. We even provided them with ideas to create a more controlled setting:

    1) Get a local establishment to sponsor a tented tailgate in the parking lot - serve food and alcohol. Charge a flat fee to get in, card people at the door so only 21+ can enter, and control the environment. Reasons why this could not happen:
    A) IUP has a contract with Aramark and they could not work with outside vendors to serve food on IUP grounds for IUP sanctioned events.
    B) IUP is a dry campus, therefore, they can't permit the sale or distribution of alcohol on campus.
    C) They have an alumni reception in the KCAC prior to every home game and they felt that serves the purpose. The event is expensive, boring, and vanilla. They sell alcohol at this event, which makes me question their response that I listed in reason B.

    2) Book some artist to have a pregame concert outside the stadium - use your contracted food vendor, Aramark, and have a fun time with food and live music outside the stadium. Reasons why this could not happen:
    A) Entertainment bookings at IUP are done through either The Entertainment Network (TEN) or Global Marketing (the company that runs the KCAC). Essentially, IUP and the athletic department either can't through some bureaucratic red tape or doesn't want to spend any money in their limited budget booking an artist for a pregame concert.
    B) We approached TEN, which is a student run organization with a university employee that heads it. They use their budget to book other events (homecoming concerts, comedy shows, etc.) and weren't interested in pursuing this.
    C) Global expressed that they didn't have the budget to organize this and also successfully book/plan that year's events at the KCAC. They did bring in Jake Owen that spring, which was an awesome show (so no bad blood there).

    3) Shut down food service in the dining hall for a game (preferably the first game of the season). Utilize Aramark to set up a large student tailgate/meal service during pregame. Make this be the location where students can use their meal plan for their "all you can eat" meal swipe. Cal used to do this all the time for their first home game of the season. It was called "Party in the Park." It worked great there. They didn't eliminate all food options, but they shut down the main dining hall. If you wanted to use your meal plan for an all you can eat meal option during a set time, you had to go to the stadium. If you showed up to eat, you were more inclined to stay for the game. Reasons why this could not happen:
    A) Logistics of needing personnel and equipment to set up the event.
    B) Logistics of needing the proper storage methods for food during the time of the event.

    The reality is that there are many ways things can happen to be improved, but the powers to be at IUP hide behind red tape, contracts, and the "it's not my department" school of thought. FightingScot82 has discussed how a unionized environment has created this. And he's right. Organizing these things are no single person or team of employee's jobs. Because of that, very few employees are going to take the effort needed to improve something they aren't contractually obligated to care about. Groundhog believes that he and I have substantive disagreements, which is essentially saying that we have different views on what reality is. I see where he's coming from - to a point. Only his reality is that people don't show up because IUP has changed since the 1960s, 70s, 80s. He's not wrong about that, but that doesn't have to constitute the norm or create a defeatist attitude.

    Adapt or die. My reality is that IUP doesn't do what's necessary because they don't want to. They need to adapt. Until they do, we'll continue to have this discussion.
    Awesome insight.. Thanks for sharing

  13. Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    My approach is different. I don't make as many assumptions. I test things. That's what I do. I do research to identify what the problems are first and do my best to support that reasoning. Your approach, as near as I can figure out, is that you already have all the answers, you just know more than everybody else. 'Here is the solution', you say. Then you try to ram it down everybody's throat. It seems to me that you didn't succeed in what you were trying to do. And that's ok. But I think you needed to listen more.

    You blame the inability to affect change on others' unwillingness to adapt and/or resistance to the changes that you want to enact. I think this comes through in the language you use. I am referencing your last post.



    You know what the factors are, definitely? I don't think anybody knows that.



    Yes, tell us what we need to understand.



    They should have understood that you knew what the issues were, definitely.
    Gotta be honest. I’m definitely getting an “I’m the smartest guy in the room” vibe from someone in this conversation and it’s not IUP24.

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    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Football season can't arrive soon enough. The arguing, backbiting and snippong here is nearly insufferable.

    All petty BS too. Nothing to get your knickers in a twist over.

    May civility return to the forum soon.

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    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    My approach is different. I don't make as many assumptions. I test things. That's what I do. I do research to identify what the problems are first and do my best to support that reasoning. Your approach, as near as I can figure out, is that you already have all the answers, you just know more than everybody else. 'Here is the solution', you say. Then you try to ram it down everybody's throat. It seems to me that you didn't succeed in what you were trying to do. And that's ok. But I think you needed to listen more.

    You blame the inability to affect change on others' unwillingness to adapt and/or resistance to the changes that you want to enact. I think this comes through in the language you use. I am referencing your last post.
    You did a good job of acting like a news network that tries to create a narrative towards a politician they don't like based on a couple sound bites from a political speech. Rather than interpreting the context of the entire response, you took fragments of a detailed post and attempted to create a narrative that I was a know it all jerk trying to ram my opinions down your throat.

    "It's definitely a combination of a couple of factors."

    PSACFan1 said this... "Well that just goes to show that either A) they don't care about the attendance numbers or B) they don't know what they are doing and/or are lazy.. I'm probably going to guess it's a little bit of both." So he introduced two factors that create an environment that negatively impact IUP attendance. You claim that I don't know what real factors are. Okay, sure, maybe I don't know all of them. But can't we agree that it's a "combination of a couple of factors?" For the deep concern of this important of a topic, it's never just one thing, is it? So I'm not sure where I said anything wrong here. Perhaps if I didn't say "definitely" you would have been happier.

    "What you need to understand is..."

    To my point above, you pulled a CNN here and took one phrase to frame a picture you wanted to create without taking that phrase in true context. The post that drew your ire wasn't even directed at you. It was in response to a post that was a response to one of mine from PSACFan1. He's a Slippery Rock guy and isn't dialed into the history or reputation of IUP. The word "you" in that sentence was directed at him, not you. Apologies you took offense to that or that makes me come off as a "know it all." Him and I were having a very productive and civil conversation.

    What you failed to do was provide the rest of that paragraph because you were too busy making it look like I was talking down to you.

    "What you need to understand is that IUP worked really hard to steamroll the "I Usually Party" reputation the school had decades ago. And with some less than stellar news coverage the past couple years, they aren't going to encourage athletic events to be "organized parties." We tried to explain to them that it's not about getting people into the game, it's about getting them to the parking lots or outside the stadium. They were resistant to events where alcohol or potential student debauchery might have occurred. "

    Take that paragraph in context. You say I'm making assumptions and you dislike that. What exactly did I say there that's wrong, incorrect, or not factual? Can we not ALL agree that IUP had an awful reputation? For goodness sakes, they tore down fraternity houses near the football stadium years ago because of the commotion. Fast forward to now... Hasn't IUP worked hard to shed that reputation? Haven't they experienced bad publicity in the last five years? Nothing there is incorrect.

    You say you want to test theories and data instead of making assumptions. For a long time you were an advocate for noon kickoffs, but in the last few days you have changed your tune. So I'm not sure where you really stand on the issue. That said, to provide you, and the rest of those involved with this discussion hard evidence, IUPBigIndians has provided the average attendance numbers for kickoff times in the last 5 years. Despite that, you state people won't go later because it gets cold. Well, where's your test data on that? Because to me, that seems like a subjective statement that's largely based on an assumption of "why" people might not go.

    It appears that you and me are the same, Groundhog. Hopefully this feud is over. Camp can't get here soon enough for me.
    Last edited by IUP24; 07-12-2019 at 05:27 PM.

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    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    It's definitely a combination of a couple of factors.

    What you need to understand is that IUP worked really hard to steamroll the "I Usually Party" reputation the school had decades ago. And with some less than stellar news coverage the past couple years, they aren't going to encourage athletic events to be "organized parties." We tried to explain to them that it's not about getting people into the game, it's about getting them to the parking lots or outside the stadium. They were resistant to events where alcohol or potential student debauchery might have occurred. We even provided them with ideas to create a more controlled setting:

    1) Get a local establishment to sponsor a tented tailgate in the parking lot - serve food and alcohol. Charge a flat fee to get in, card people at the door so only 21+ can enter, and control the environment. Reasons why this could not happen:
    A) IUP has a contract with Aramark and they could not work with outside vendors to serve food on IUP grounds for IUP sanctioned events.
    B) IUP is a dry campus, therefore, they can't permit the sale or distribution of alcohol on campus.
    C) They have an alumni reception in the KCAC prior to every home game and they felt that serves the purpose. The event is expensive, boring, and vanilla. They sell alcohol at this event, which makes me question their response that I listed in reason B.

    2) Book some artist to have a pregame concert outside the stadium - use your contracted food vendor, Aramark, and have a fun time with food and live music outside the stadium. Reasons why this could not happen:
    A) Entertainment bookings at IUP are done through either The Entertainment Network (TEN) or Global Marketing (the company that runs the KCAC). Essentially, IUP and the athletic department either can't through some bureaucratic red tape or doesn't want to spend any money in their limited budget booking an artist for a pregame concert.
    B) We approached TEN, which is a student run organization with a university employee that heads it. They use their budget to book other events (homecoming concerts, comedy shows, etc.) and weren't interested in pursuing this.
    C) Global expressed that they didn't have the budget to organize this and also successfully book/plan that year's events at the KCAC. They did bring in Jake Owen that spring, which was an awesome show (so no bad blood there).

    3) Shut down food service in the dining hall for a game (preferably the first game of the season). Utilize Aramark to set up a large student tailgate/meal service during pregame. Make this be the location where students can use their meal plan for their "all you can eat" meal swipe. Cal used to do this all the time for their first home game of the season. It was called "Party in the Park." It worked great there. They didn't eliminate all food options, but they shut down the main dining hall. If you wanted to use your meal plan for an all you can eat meal option during a set time, you had to go to the stadium. If you showed up to eat, you were more inclined to stay for the game. Reasons why this could not happen:
    A) Logistics of needing personnel and equipment to set up the event.
    B) Logistics of needing the proper storage methods for food during the time of the event.

    The reality is that there are many ways things can happen to be improved, but the powers to be at IUP hide behind red tape, contracts, and the "it's not my department" school of thought. FightingScot82 has discussed how a unionized environment has created this. And he's right. Organizing these things are no single person or team of employee's jobs. Because of that, very few employees are going to take the effort needed to improve something they aren't contractually obligated to care about. Groundhog believes that he and I have substantive disagreements, which is essentially saying that we have different views on what reality is. I see where he's coming from - to a point. Only his reality is that people don't show up because IUP has changed since the 1960s, 70s, 80s. He's not wrong about that, but that doesn't have to constitute the norm or create a defeatist attitude.

    Adapt or die. My reality is that IUP doesn't do what's necessary because they don't want to. They need to adapt. Until they do, we'll continue to have this discussion.
    Great post!

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    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    The dry campus line is a terrible excuse and goes to show that the staff member in question is so insular that he/she doesn't know what's going on at the other system schools. Plus you can bet your 401k that IUP serves alcohol at events without asking permission.

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    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP Ebbs View Post
    Football season can't arrive soon enough. The arguing, backbiting and snippong here is nearly insufferable.

    All petty BS too. Nothing to get your knickers in a twist over.

    May civility return to the forum soon.
    This board hasn't been civil in a few years. This is why I don't post much anymore. Between this garbage and that Homer moron, I can't stomach this board.

  19. #1119

    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    They should just keep with the norm.


    It's great

  20. Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    For a long time you were an advocate for noon kickoffs, but in the last few days you have changed your tune.
    Please find a previous comment where I said I was in favor of noon kick-offs. I never have been so I think that is fake news.


    It doesn't matter because I am outtahere.


    I think you are right IUP24. I really am just too old to have any viable ideas. Trying to keep up with dynamic 27 year olds like you is a losing battle.


    In fact, I am coming to terms that I am just too old for this forum nonsense. I'm leaving it to you creative young bucks. You pretty much know everything anyhow.


    See you in September. I'm sure you can come up with a lot of great things to discuss between now and then.

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