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Thread: IUP Football 2019

  1. #1021
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    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Since this somehow - again - morphed into an attendance discussion. Here's what I'll say...

    There's a lot of truth to my previous post:
    1) Student attendance is down in college football (including big boy schools in the FBS Power 5).
    2) Non-student attendance is down in college football as well.
    3) Going to games live does not have the same appeal as it once did. That's really not opinion either. There's numerous well-written articles that talk about that subjects. Students, even at the brand name schools, don't find it a necessity to be in the stadium every Saturday. Numbers back all of this up.

    When the discussion goes to IUP, I think there's really three discussion points that are debated on here:
    1) Poor student attendance
    2) Poor atmosphere
    3) A generally apathetic, uninterested, and non-excitable clientele at the games.

    All have merit and all are important to discuss. Aside from IUPBigIndians, nobody else discusses the average age of what those giving to the IUP football program actually is. And IUPgroundhog, please here me out. I'm not trying to act like some jerky young millennial - I promise. The real issue that needs discussed is a sort of blending of what those three discussion points are that I listed above and what IUPNation claims in terms of his belief that "people should go because they care and want to."

    Increasing student attendance is a tired issue. It hasn't improved and it won't. That ship has sailed. It is what it is. What I think we often forget is that there are still students who show up - a small percentage of the student body on a campus with 12,000-13,000 students - but there are kids who go. Is it something to do on a Saturday, or do they care like IUPNation did. That's what really needs to be discussed, and that's what IUP Football and the IUP athletic department need to figure out. What made Johnny get out of bed on a Saturday morning to watch IUP and Lock Haven at noon in a stadium worse than most high schools in the area? Because those are the kids they need to target, not the ones streaming Penn State versus some directional college at 3:30 in their dorm room.

    I want the powers that be within the athletic department to discuss how they can get the small percentage more engaged; how they can become involved with the program; what it will take for them to become more invested. If you start asking those questions and taking those steps with the ones who already show up, that's how you get a younger fan base and grow a donor base.

    That's what I think we should really be discussing on here. Student attendance isn't increasing, but how can we turn the students that show up for a noon snooze fest against Millersville into donors 10 years later?

  2. #1022

    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    Since this somehow - again - morphed into an attendance discussion. Here's what I'll say...

    There's a lot of truth to my previous post:
    1) Student attendance is down in college football (including big boy schools in the FBS Power 5).
    2) Non-student attendance is down in college football as well.
    3) Going to games live does not have the same appeal as it once did. That's really not opinion either. There's numerous well-written articles that talk about that subjects. Students, even at the brand name schools, don't find it a necessity to be in the stadium every Saturday. Numbers back all of this up.

    When the discussion goes to IUP, I think there's really three discussion points that are debated on here:
    1) Poor student attendance
    2) Poor atmosphere
    3) A generally apathetic, uninterested, and non-excitable clientele at the games.

    All have merit and all are important to discuss. Aside from IUPBigIndians, nobody else discusses the average age of what those giving to the IUP football program actually is. And IUPgroundhog, please here me out. I'm not trying to act like some jerky young millennial - I promise. The real issue that needs discussed is a sort of blending of what those three discussion points are that I listed above and what IUPNation claims in terms of his belief that "people should go because they care and want to."

    Increasing student attendance is a tired issue. It hasn't improved and it won't. That ship has sailed. It is what it is. What I think we often forget is that there are still students who show up - a small percentage of the student body on a campus with 12,000-13,000 students - but there are kids who go. Is it something to do on a Saturday, or do they care like IUPNation did. That's what really needs to be discussed, and that's what IUP Football and the IUP athletic department need to figure out. What made Johnny get out of bed on a Saturday morning to watch IUP and Lock Haven at noon in a stadium worse than most high schools in the area? Because those are the kids they need to target, not the ones streaming Penn State versus some directional college at 3:30 in their dorm room.

    I want the powers that be within the athletic department to discuss how they can get the small percentage more engaged; how they can become involved with the program; what it will take for them to become more invested. If you start asking those questions and taking those steps with the ones who already show up, that's how you get a younger fan base and grow a donor base.

    That's what I think we should really be discussing on here. Student attendance isn't increasing, but how can we turn the students that show up for a noon snooze fest against Millersville into donors 10 years later?
    Could you get students to Miller and make it an event? Yeah, you could. But, it all starts with the tailgates. Look what SRU has done. Those games are wild. And, they've become on-campus events.

    Ironically IUP has a stellar party-school reputation yet doesn't want a party at the games.

    So, you're right. No tailgating and noon kicks ... no hope of a big student turnout. It's too boring.

    They're also missing out on tons of families who are still at Pee-Wee and soccer at noon.

    On the positive we still get to see the big games on TV at the real time slots.

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    [QUOTE=IUPbigINDIANS;2397079]
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ike 97 View Post

    Lot of truth in your last sentence. It feels like a high school game.

    Which PSAC foosball field is above a high school facility? None of them.

  4. #1024

    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    [QUOTE=IUPNation;2397106]
    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post


    Which PSAC foosball field is above a high school facility? None of them.
    Yeah ... they almost all suck.

  5. Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    [QUOTE=IUPNation;2397106]
    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post


    Which PSAC foosball field is above a high school facility? None of them.
    To be sure. Put on Friday Night Lights on WTAE Channel 4 News out of Pittsburgh on autumn Friday evenings and you will see high school stadiums that are a thousand times nicer than what IUP has and likely the majority of the conference.

    Facilities are a MAJOR problem with IUP/PSAC football. Some of you say that IUP is more of a hoops school----well, look at the facility that they have.

    -

  6. Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPNation View Post
    You are getting them There ay any time if they don’t care.

    The oldies in the stands cared because what options were there in 1955, 1960 or 1965. Foosball games were the event on campus I imagine. We had more options in the 80’s and it’s only gotten 100 times worse since then...

    Kids were not sitting in their dorms watching Penn State or Pitt on TV in 1960.

    Maybe you get a few dozen more students at 3pm but in the end, if the don’t care about The program when they arrive as freshmen then they never will.

    The answer isn’t game time changes or free concerts or free food.

    I just had lunch with a friend from IUP who now lives in Wisconsin. She was visiting with her sister down the shore and they came to Philly for a day. We were talking about things from IUP and football came up. Her sister went to Penn State. She asked me if IUP was any good at football. She’s lived in PA all her life. If people in this state have no idea of the pedigree of the IUP program than why are we expecting crowds to show up. Slimey gets people because of the stupid name and all that associates with it. IUP has an image and marketing problem. The problem is they promote nothing so nobody cares. In the end it’s being associated with something successful that makes people care.

    I cared because I went to a high school that maybe won 9 games in the four years I attended.

    Now I had a college foosball team that took prisoners and asked questions later. That made me care. It was that simple. I put up the 1986 PSAC Title banner I bought at the Co-op in my room.

    But I Also knew dozens of kids both male and female in those days who didn’t give a blip about the foosball team or any IUP sports. The issue is not new. I say it constantly and nobody listens.
    Wow, you must have went to much more of a football high school than I did. We won FOUR games in my four years of high school. Lucky bloody you!

    But your point is well taken----we were no doubt so very grateful to have a good football program and took a lot of pride in supporting it during our time at IUP and beyond.

    -

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdinboroFB View Post
    Since this is the official Iup should've or could've won every game thread. An argument can be made about IUP outplaying Cal and losing. But the SRU game wasn't as close as the score. A couple Lenny hail mary type passes in the 2nd half and a penalty on the rock O-lineman that killed a long drive and forced a missed FG ..kept that game closer than it was straight up ( without fluke plays and turnovers)


    One loss at Cal should've had them locked in the rest of the way....not packing it in for the year with only one loss.
    If you watch the film, IUP was not a great football team last year to be polite. There’s not much positive you can say about any of the position groups. None excelled. They could have easily lost four or five games.

    The good news is, it’s behind them and it can be learned from. I too have seen guys working out in the evenings at the stadium. This has to be a hungry group. I’m not sure how many people appreciate the razor thin line between being elite or average. A couple of bad apples, the loss of a few key players, and some players not playing to expectations can turn a team capable of 11-0 into 6-5 really quick.


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  8. Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    That's what I think we should really be discussing on here. Student attendance isn't increasing, but how can we turn the students that show up for a noon snooze fest against Millersville into donors 10 years later?
    You want to expand the student fan base, the local community fan base, and the alumni fan base. Get the ones that do show up more engaged? I'm not sure what that means.

    There is a logic here. if you want to increase attendance that means getting more people to come to the games. Sure, you can do your tailgating and start the games at different times but if they want more fans to come they need to promote it and they need to communicate with various groups in a way that gets them to take positive action i.e. attend the game.

    There are all kinds of factors that can impact attendance and many have been discussed here. However, there have been a lot of changes at IUP over the years. It is not the same institution it was back in the late 60's/early 70's or during Frank, Sr.'s tenure.

    Here are a couple significant changes at IUP over the years.

    1. The graduate student population is a much larger component of the total. They aren't going to football games as much as undergrads, regardless if they are on campus or commuters.
    2. The student population is more diverse geographically with a much larger percentage hailing from Eastern PA. It's possible they don't identify with IUP football in the same way that a more homogeneous student body mostly from western PA did back in the day. Additionally, they aren't having visitors from back home coming up to party for a day or the weekend like you probably have at SRU to a much greater extent.
    3. The decline of Greek life at IUP. It used to be that the Greek community was the backbone of student involement with the football team. I don't think that is the case anymore.
    4. There's a lot more foreign students at IUP now. Probably not going to the games.

    So, along with a lot of the other things mentioned by other posters I have to think these demographic changes have had an impact.
    Last edited by iupgroundhog; 07-10-2019 at 09:44 PM.

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    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Could you get students to Miller and make it an event? Yeah, you could. But, it all starts with the tailgates. Look what SRU has done. Those games are wild. And, they've become on-campus events.

    Ironically IUP has a stellar party-school reputation yet doesn't want a party at the games.

    So, you're right. No tailgating and noon kicks ... no hope of a big student turnout. It's too boring.

    They're also missing out on tons of families who are still at Pee-Wee and soccer at noon.

    On the positive we still get to see the big games on TV at the real time slots.
    I've heard the there is discussion on tailgating.

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    Default IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    You want to expand the student fan base, the local community fan base, and the alumni fan base. Get the ones that do show up more engaged? I'm not sure what that means.

    When BigIndians and I talk about an older core fan base it isn’t to be rude. The big money donors 65+ are going to die off in the next 20 years. Naturally, if you don’t have younger fans -students or non students - who are invested, that’s going to be bad news down the road as it pertains to who is funding the program.

    What I’m saying in regards to the block of text you referenced is that it isn’t about getting more to the games anymore. In all reality, that’s a lost cause. To IUPNation’s point, the small group of students who go the games likely go because they care.

    You have to get that 5% of the student body, likely not even that much, and tap into them. Getting those kids more interested and more invested will create a group of young alumni more interested in giving back. I’m not talking about tailgates or kickoff times. I don’t know what the answer is or how you do it, but that’s the real discussion.

    I’m 26 and donate to the football and basketball program. Not much, but I’m a young alum that gives back. There’s more people like me in that small group of students, but IUP needs to find ways to help those kids come out of their shell and feel more invested.



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  11. Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP24 View Post
    When BigIndians and I talk about an older core fan base it isn’t to be rude. The big money donors 65+ are going to die off in the next 20 years. Naturally, if you don’t have younger fans -students or non students - who are invested, that’s going to be bad news down the road as it pertains to who is funding the program.

    What I’m saying in regards to the block of text you referenced is that it isn’t about getting more to the games anymore. In all reality, that’s a lost cause. To IUPNation’s point, the small group of students who go the games likely go because they care.

    You have to get that 5% of the student body, likely not even that much, and tap into them. Getting those kids more interested and more invested will create a group of young alumni more interested in giving back. I’m not talking about tailgates or kickoff times. I don’t know what the answer is or how you do it, but that’s the real discussion.

    I’m 26 and donate to the football and basketball program. Not much, but I’m a young alum that gives back. There’s more people like me in that small group of students, but IUP needs to find ways to help those kids come out of their shell and feel more invested.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yes, but what you have to understand is that those donors and supporters are attached to a different era of IUP football. The stimulus that you are describing, turn a small group of interested students into future donors, is a disconnect. There is really no way you can do that. Future financial support will depend on ongoing fundraising efforts. That is always the case.

    A little history is in order. The first Golden Age of IUP football was in the mid and late 1960's and into the 1970's. Of course, that era is highlighted by the 1968 Boardwalk Bowl appearance. IUP was pretty big time (not PSU/Pitt big time) in football then and had a high profile.

    For several years in the '70's and early 80's football was deemphasized at IUP. Then in the early 80's people who were attached to the earlier era of success supported a movement to bring football back. Yes, these people are either elderly or dead now. There is still support for IUP football financially but I think there is an enthusiasm gap. In order to maintain an enthusiastic fan base in the future they are going to have to have on-field success and a strong base of followers.

    The problem with your concept of developing future financial backers is that the people in the seats are not necessarily going to end up being the big donors. There has to be a continuing fundraising push and that is a separate thing from general fan support.

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    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Students will come if the experience is better than the alternatives. Doesn't matter what they are - that's how it works for everyone including alumni and adults. It's that simple. Not a free t-shirt. Let's be honest - when we were 19 or 20 there are VERY few places better than your bed.

    The frustration is that there's no incentive to improve the experience. Most people in the athletic department are union - their raise isn't determined by performance. My experience at PASSHE and non-PASSHE is that the Athletics staff just want the games over as soon as possible so they can salvage as much of their Saturday as possible. Another downside of the unionization of management is that there is no work/life balance. No arrangements for comp time because they work Saturday. At my employer, if there is a late night event its expected that we adjust our schedule and come in later. If there's a weekend program its expected that we carve out that time from the week before or the week after. So that's the big reason for the noon kickoffs - getting home ASAP.

  13. #1033

    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Sports are entertainment. The competition for the entertainment dollar is intense.

    The product on the football field at IUP is good. But, that's not enough (obviously). It is to us on here but there aren't many of us. Not to mention due to geographic restraints many on here don't even attend the games.

    My wife and kids ... I can't even drag them to football games. Too long and too boring. I hear it every week. Sure, we're just one example, but I think we'd be a common trend of locals in the 30-45 age group. Basketball games at IUP ... completely different. They don't miss.

    How can they appeal to the fringe fan in the lower age groups? As IUPNation routinely says ... the marketing is garbage. How do you motivate the family of 4 or 5 to give up a Saturday afternoon and get them to Miller? How do you get them interested? I think we all know how you don't get them interested (current game-day environment).

    We're not talking 10,000 people on average. Never in a million years. How do you get that average up to 4,000 somewhat (mostly) engaged fans?

    It's possible. Slippery Rock pulled it off. And, the SRU is in the boonies excuse is laughable. So is Indiana.

    The common theme on here seems to be 'this is how it's always been' ... and, you're right. And, that's why it's in the current (terrible) state it is today.

    Think about this: We have a school with 12,000 students -- and a great program with an on-campus stadium. Yet, we struggle to get an average of 2,500 through the gate. That's the reality of the situation.


    The 1980s were 30 years ago now. Much of what should be a large portion of the current, target audience today wasn't even born yet.

    Indiana is a great college town. It's a wild college town. Yet, Miller Stadium is seen as so boring on Fall Saturday's. If you can change that perception, and, of course, add the fun to that Saturday, things can change. Just go up to Dr. Evil's stadium if you don't believe me.

  14. Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    If there's a weekend program its expected that we carve out that time from the week before or the week after. So that's the big reason for the noon kickoffs - getting home ASAP.
    I think that's your individual perception because of the job you do combined with your views on unionized management in higher education.

    I don't like the 12pm kick-offs, either, but I think it's a function of when the sun starts to go down late in the season in Pennsylvania more than anything. In Indiana, it pre-dates the stadium lights and it is one of the "we've always done it that way" things. I think that theory is borne out by the way they have start times set throughout the season. The 12pm start times are late October and November. If you start at 2pm you do have to turn on the lights for a short time in the 4th Qtr. If you start later than 2pm it is getting cold after the sun goes down. Just sayin',

  15. Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Sports are entertainment. The competition for the entertainment dollar is intense.

    The product on the football field at IUP is good. But, that's not enough (obviously). It is to us on here but there aren't many of us. Not to mention due to geographic restraints many on here don't even attend the games.

    My wife and kids ... I can't even drag them to football games. Too long and too boring. I hear it every week. Sure, we're just one example, but I think we'd be a common trend of locals in the 30-45 age group. Basketball games at IUP ... completely different. They don't miss.

    How can they appeal to the fringe fan in the lower age groups? As IUPNation routinely says ... the marketing is garbage. How do you motivate the family of 4 or 5 to give up a Saturday afternoon and get them to Miller? How do you get them interested? I think we all know how you don't get them interested (current game-day environment).

    We're not talking 10,000 people on average. Never in a million years. How do you get that average up to 4,000 somewhat (mostly) engaged fans?

    It's possible. Slippery Rock pulled it off. And, the SRU is in the boonies excuse is laughable. So is Indiana.

    The common theme on here seems to be 'this is how it's always been' ... and, you're right. And, that's why it's in the current (terrible) state it is today.

    Think about this: We have a school with 12,000 students -- and a great program with an on-campus stadium. Yet, we struggle to get an average of 2,500 through the gate. That's the reality of the situation.


    The 1980s were 30 years ago now. Much of what should be a large portion of the current, target audience today wasn't even born yet.

    Indiana is a great college town. It's a wild college town. Yet, Miller Stadium is seen as so boring on Fall Saturday's. If you can change that perception, and, of course, add the fun to that Saturday, things can change. Just go up to Dr. Evil's stadium if you don't believe me.
    I said they have to promote it and you said all this. Same thing.

    I don't follow that you want them to make it a family-oriented outing. I don't think a d2 football game will ever be that.

    Also, I have yet to see any poster take the position of "it's always been that way", therefore, it just is. Never have I seen that on here.

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    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    I think that's your individual perception because of the job you do combined with your views on unionized management in higher education.

    I don't like the 12pm kick-offs, either, but I think it's a function of when the sun starts to go down late in the season in Pennsylvania more than anything. In Indiana, it pre-dates the stadium lights and it is one of the "we've always done it that way" things. I think that theory is borne out by the way they have start times set throughout the season. The 12pm start times are late October and November. If you start at 2pm you do have to turn on the lights for a short time in the 4th Qtr. If you start later than 2pm it is getting cold after the sun goes down. Just sayin',
    Fair points. Then why don't Saturday basketball games start at 12pm?

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    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Sports are entertainment. The competition for the entertainment dollar is intense.

    The product on the football field at IUP is good. But, that's not enough (obviously). It is to us on here but there aren't many of us. Not to mention due to geographic restraints many on here don't even attend the games.

    My wife and kids ... I can't even drag them to football games. Too long and too boring. I hear it every week. Sure, we're just one example, but I think we'd be a common trend of locals in the 30-45 age group. Basketball games at IUP ... completely different. They don't miss.

    How can they appeal to the fringe fan in the lower age groups? As IUPNation routinely says ... the marketing is garbage. How do you motivate the family of 4 or 5 to give up a Saturday afternoon and get them to Miller? How do you get them interested? I think we all know how you don't get them interested (current game-day environment).

    We're not talking 10,000 people on average. Never in a million years. How do you get that average up to 4,000 somewhat (mostly) engaged fans?

    It's possible. Slippery Rock pulled it off. And, the SRU is in the boonies excuse is laughable. So is Indiana.

    The common theme on here seems to be 'this is how it's always been' ... and, you're right. And, that's why it's in the current (terrible) state it is today.

    Think about this: We have a school with 12,000 students -- and a great program with an on-campus stadium. Yet, we struggle to get an average of 2,500 through the gate. That's the reality of the situation.


    The 1980s were 30 years ago now. Much of what should be a large portion of the current, target audience today wasn't even born yet.

    Indiana is a great college town. It's a wild college town. Yet, Miller Stadium is seen as so boring on Fall Saturday's. If you can change that perception, and, of course, add the fun to that Saturday, things can change. Just go up to Dr. Evil's stadium if you don't believe me.
    IUP had 11,300 students in the fall. If you take out those not likely to attend: part-timers, branch campus students, international students, and grad students, you still have to remove about 250 for band, cheerleaders, and guys playing on the field. That takes you down to about 9,100 students before considering those who work or go home. Even if you got 10% of that 9,100 number that would add to the atmosphere. Students are a bit more into the game than Jim who is a 95 alum or Cletus from Homer City coming because he got two free tickets from opening a First Commonwealth checking account. The most vocal fans at games I've attended for several sub-FBS schools are the students and parents.

  18. Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    Fair points. Then why don't Saturday basketball games start at 12pm?
    What do you mean?

  19. Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    Fair points. Then why don't Saturday basketball games start at 12pm?
    What is 'because it's indoors, Alex?'

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    Default Re: IUP Football 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    What do you mean?
    If 12pm was a good start time, why doesn't IUP start their Saturday basketball games at 12pm?

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