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Thread: MIAA Week 3 chat

  1. #21
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    Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Quote Originally Posted by NWHoops View Post
    Tough break at the end for Western.

    Was it a foul? Yes. Should it have been called in that situation? Depends on your stance. If you believe calling it the same the entire game then you call the foul. If you believe you let some things go at the end of the game and let the players decide then you don't call it.
    Depends on your stance? What? If it is a foul it should be called. Every. Time. No matter when. Players did decide the game. A player decided to commit an infraction and thus was penalized. No where in the rules of basketball at any level is there a section allowing for the game to officiated differently depending on time in game.

  2. #22

    Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Btech#3 View Post
    Just got back from the Washburn/Mo. West game. I’m a basketball purist and I hate to see a game decided on a call like that. With that being said, it wasn’t a ticky tack foul. It was a pretty obvious foul. I have reffed and it is hard not to blow your whistle when it is obvious cuz it is a reflex. He probably wishes he wouldn’t have blown his whistle and the game would have went to double OT. My analysis is Washburn survived 19 3’s, 58% from the FT line and 2 of their top 8 out with injuries. One starter out the whole game and the other missed the 2nd half tonight. They survived and fought thru adversity to get the win. Mo West is much improved and play a style that is tough to guard.
    You would actually be considered the exact opposite of a "purist" based on what was written after.

  3. #23

    Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Quote Originally Posted by NWHoops View Post
    I didn't say that was what I believe. I have heard both sides of the argument. Some say the rules are the rules and you call it the same the entire game. I have heard many others say you swallow the whistles at the end unless it is blatant. I'm not picking a side, just stating that depending on who you are rooting for and what your philosophy is then that will determine whether you think it should have been called. I have seen many times players are blatantly on half court or longer shots at the end of the half/game and officials swallow their whistles then. That's not calling it the same but I rarely, if ever, hear someone say they should have called the foul on that half court shot at the end of the game. I'm not saying it is correct, just observations.

    I have officiated basketball myself. I would not have called a foul on what happened. But I probably wouldn't have called it throughout the game either. At the same time, I don't think you can argue with calling it a foul. It was 50/50 play in my eyes. Earlier I said it was a foul in response to GrifFan saying it was BS because I could truly see it going either way. It wasn't a 100% no call.

    Shot fake > defender jumps > offensive player dribbles to the side > defender comes down and bumps offensive player while he is still dribbling (no shot attempt). Foul called (on the floor outside the 3 point line) with 1.8. I only saw the play in real time and that was my instinct when I saw it. If I saw the replay I may change my mind but officials don't have that luxury.
    Good description. Went back and watched. Easy foul call.

  4. Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    By purist I mean I wish the foul would not have been called. I am a Washburn fan and we benefited from "the call". You are right, a purist would say you should call it the same way regardless of when it occurs. In other words if it is a foul on the first possession then it is a foul on the last possession. On the other side, I can see why the referee called it. Any way, tough way to end the game. You have to think that those things even out. I am sure the board will remind me of that when the next time it goes against Washburn. On to tonight games. Which game has the most intrigue? UCM at MO Southern, UCO at UNK or NSU @ FHSU. For me it is the UCM at MO Southern. UCM is healthy and they play a slower grind it out style and they have their big guy back. MO Southern is coming off a tough road trip. I expect MO Southern to win and get back on track at home but this game could be very interesting.

  5. #25

    Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Taxman View Post
    Depends on your stance? What? If it is a foul it should be called. Every. Time. No matter when. Players did decide the game. A player decided to commit an infraction and thus was penalized. No where in the rules of basketball at any level is there a section allowing for the game to officiated differently depending on time in game.
    That is your stance (and mine too). There are others who believe ticky tack fouls should not be called in the closing moments of a game. Again, not saying I agree. I have heard and seen people have these debates. Your stance is clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taxman View Post
    Good description. Went back and watched. Easy foul call.
    As I said before, I think it could go either way but I'm not sure it was an easy call. At the same time, I have no issue with it being called a foul. It's like a bang-bang charge/block. I could see either/or and not be upset as an unbiased observer.

    Did the defender gain an advantage? I'm not sure. Offensive player was not driving to the basket and slowed from doing so, he was not prevented from making progress in the direction he was trying to go (sideways), he didn't lose control of the ball, he was not attempting a shot. With all that in consideration in a split second I would have seen it as incidental contact and play on. The problem with incidental contact is that it is open for interpretation. I shared mine. Without incidental contact though, you would literally have to call every time 2 players make contact with each other because someone is gaining a slight advantage each time. We know officials don't call every contact and we wouldn't want them to either.

  6. #26

    Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Quote Originally Posted by NWHoops View Post
    That is your stance (and mine too). There are others who believe ticky tack fouls should not be called in the closing moments of a game. Again, not saying I agree. I have heard and seen people have these debates. Your stance is clear.


    As I said before, I think it could go either way but I'm not sure it was an easy call. At the same time, I have no issue with it being called a foul. It's like a bang-bang charge/block. I could see either/or and not be upset as an unbiased observer.

    Did the defender gain an advantage? I'm not sure. Offensive player was not driving to the basket and slowed from doing so, he was not prevented from making progress in the direction he was trying to go (sideways), he didn't lose control of the ball, he was not attempting a shot. With all that in consideration in a split second I would have seen it as incidental contact and play on. The problem with incidental contact is that it is open for interpretation. I shared mine. Without incidental contact though, you would literally have to call every time 2 players make contact with each other because someone is gaining a slight advantage each time. We know officials don't call every contact and we wouldn't want them to either.
    Won't agree all of these points are valid or correct ;) but are reasonable. Attempting to interpret "incidental" contact on a ballhandler leads to inconsistent officiating which is the worst. The ballhandler was clearly contacted, impeding his direction and forced to change his path by a defender not in a legal guarding position. I've gotten on board with the advantage/disadvantage idea over time. Contact off the ball absolutely has to have this under consideration.

  7. #27

    Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Btech#3 View Post
    By purist I mean I wish the foul would not have been called. I am a Washburn fan and we benefited from "the call". You are right, a purist would say you should call it the same way regardless of when it occurs. In other words if it is a foul on the first possession then it is a foul on the last possession. On the other side, I can see why the referee called it. Any way, tough way to end the game. You have to think that those things even out. I am sure the board will remind me of that when the next time it goes against Washburn. On to tonight games. Which game has the most intrigue? UCM at MO Southern, UCO at UNK or NSU @ FHSU. For me it is the UCM at MO Southern. UCM is healthy and they play a slower grind it out style and they have their big guy back. MO Southern is coming off a tough road trip. I expect MO Southern to win and get back on track at home but this game could be very interesting.
    Yep. Never apologize for receiving what may be perceived as a break going your way. Plenty of events over time will go the other way as well.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Quote Originally Posted by NWHoops View Post
    That is your stance (and mine too). There are others who believe ticky tack fouls should not be called in the closing moments of a game. Again, not saying I agree. I have heard and seen people have these debates. Your stance is clear.


    As I said before, I think it could go either way but I'm not sure it was an easy call. At the same time, I have no issue with it being called a foul. It's like a bang-bang charge/block. I could see either/or and not be upset as an unbiased observer.

    Did the defender gain an advantage? I'm not sure. Offensive player was not driving to the basket and slowed from doing so, he was not prevented from making progress in the direction he was trying to go (sideways), he didn't lose control of the ball, he was not attempting a shot. With all that in consideration in a split second I would have seen it as incidental contact and play on. The problem with incidental contact is that it is open for interpretation. I shared mine. Without incidental contact though, you would literally have to call every time 2 players make contact with each other because someone is gaining a slight advantage each time. We know officials don't call every contact and we wouldn't want them to either.
    The question of advantage is the key one to me, and I agree that my call would have leaned toward incidental contact, but I'm biased and I get that others can disagree. As I said earlier, though, it did not seem consistent with the way the game was called all night.

  9. Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifFan View Post
    The question of advantage is the key one to me, and I agree that my call would have leaned toward incidental contact, but I'm biased and I get that others can disagree. As I said earlier, though, it did not seem consistent with the way the game was called all night.
    You and I are pretty much in agreement. Tough call that could have gone either way. Unfortunate that it came to that. On the positive side, your Giffons are playing good ball and are going to win a lot of games. The future looks bright. Sundance is doing a heck of a job. Good luck against Emporia State Saturday. They play a similar style. They dribble drive and kick to the shooters. They shoot a lot of 3's, don't have much of a post presence and they are pretty athletic on the perimeter like you guys. Having just watched both teams, I think you guys should win and are the better team.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifFan View Post
    The question of advantage is the key one to me, and I agree that my call would have leaned toward incidental contact, but I'm biased and I get that others can disagree. As I said earlier, though, it did not seem consistent with the way the game was called all night.
    Anything similar to this, it should've been called a foul. In this instance, it was bad no call on the part of the Big 12 official. Wait for replay, Babb definitely got fouled.
    http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=25717328
    Last edited by CatFan88; 01-10-2019 at 06:41 PM.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Quote Originally Posted by CatFan88 View Post
    Anything similar to this, it should've been called a foul. In this instance, it was bad no call on the part of the Big 12 official. Wait for replay, Babb definitely got fouled.
    http://www.esnpn.com/video/clip?id=25717328
    There's an extra "n" in your link - http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=25717328

    But no, it was nothing similar to that imo.

  12. #32

    Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Quote Originally Posted by CatFan88 View Post
    Anything similar to this, it should've been called a foul. In this instance, it was bad no call on the part of the Big 12 official. Wait for replay, Babb definitely got fouled.
    http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=25717328
    Nothing similar to that but I agree that should be a foul. That is the exact scenario I had in mind for my example earlier. That is a blatant foul on any non buzzer beater shot yet I can't recall a foul being called in one of those scenarios.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifFan View Post
    There's an extra "n" in your link - http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=25717328

    But no, it was nothing similar to that imo.
    Not sure how that got in there, but thanks. Probably have virus on my computer now. Crap!

  14. #34
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    Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Inadvertent but that looks like a foul to me. Put it like this if that was reversed Id think MWSU got screwed on a no call.

  15. #35

    Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Quote Originally Posted by CatFan88 View Post
    Anything similar to this, it should've been called a foul. In this instance, it was bad no call on the part of the Big 12 official. Wait for replay, Babb definitely got fouled.
    http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=25717328
    Mason was fouling on purpose and still couldn't get a foul call!

  16. #36
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    Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Was 100% a foul at the end - he almost knocked him over with a bump ... foul every time ...

  17. Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    UCM at MO Southern was closer than the differential of 10 with MO Southern prevailing. It looked like to me that UCM got the tempo slowed down but Southern prevailed and pulled away by 10 in the last 2 minutes. UCM is a different team with big man Jacob Lowrance back but Southern found a way to get it done. FHSU struggled with NSU but prevailed. NSU has lost two close games in a row. They are obviously much improved and UCO took care of business over a struggling UNK team. How long has it been since UNK has struggled like this at home? Lots of good games coming up this weekend with a full slate of 7 games on Sat. Should be an interesting Sat.
    Last edited by Btech#3; 01-10-2019 at 11:42 PM.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Emporia at MWSU postponed to Sunday: https://gogriffons.com/news/2019/1/1...d-one-day.aspx

  19. Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifFan View Post
    Emporia at MWSU postponed to Sunday: https://gogriffons.com/news/2019/1/1...d-one-day.aspx
    Wintry mix.....and the Chiefs play at 3:30 Saturday!

  20. #40

    Default Re: MIAA Week 3 chat

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterWizard View Post
    Wintry mix.....and the Chiefs play at 3:30 Saturday!
    Surely that has nothing to do with the postponement.

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