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Thread: Fully funded vs not fully funded

  1. #1

    Default Fully funded vs not fully funded

    I have heard that term often and I know that it has something to do with the amount of scholarships/money a program has. Does fully funded mean that the school has the money available to offer that max scholarships the NCAA allows?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtybird View Post
    I have heard that term often and I know that it has something to do with the amount of scholarships/money a program has. Does fully funded mean that the school has the money available to offer that max scholarships the NCAA allows?
    It will vary by league. In the PSAC the teams have to raise their own scholarship money. Well, the 'state school' members do. We have some private schools who are not members of the PASSHE (Seton Hill, UPJ, Gannon, Mercyhurst and soon Shepherd).

    By and large, yes, 'fully funded' means you are at max scholarships. D2 football is 36. I believe men's basketball is 10.

    Fightingscot82 is the guru on this topic but that is the nutshell version. He can explain how the private schools work much better.

    For many D2 programs getting that yearly $150,000 or whatever the number is for 10 full rides is a huge challenge. Most teams in the PSAC probably have about 3 to 5 scholarship equivalencies to divide up amongst the whole roster. So, if they full ride one guy ... the rest get less of a cut.

    It's largely why the same teams are good every year and the same teams are bad every year. The playing field is far from level. Football is even worse.

    There is some real scheming at play, too. For instance everybody knew IUP was going to be loaded this year in men's basketball. Teams can elect not to spend all their money this year and save it for next year in an attempt to load up for a run next season. That stuff happens. SRU did it last year. That's how KR got all those guys this year.

    It's why I always say the most important job a coach has in the PSAC is being a salesman. If he can't raise money he could be John Wooden and it won't matter. He needs boosters. Lots of them.

  3. Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    10 scholarships are the max to the best of my knowledge in college hoops. At least in D-II. Not sure about the upper levels.

    I would assume that fully-funded would mean that a school is operating at the max amount of scholie's permitted.

    -

  4. Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    That was gonna be my next question, how is it different for state and private. You mentioned it works better for privates but I thought there was state funding that state schools got but privates did not. Also privates are much more expensive to attend in most cases.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP CRIMSON HAWKS View Post
    10 scholarships are the max to the best of my knowledge in college hoops. At least in D-II. Not sure about the upper levels.

    I would assume that fully-funded would mean that a school is operating at the max amount of scholie's permitted.

    -
    FYI 13 in d1

  6. #6

    Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbuseer View Post
    FYI 13 in d1
    Those 13 D1 scholarships is headcount, not equivalencies.

    Here is a good site for scholarship info: http://www.scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits.html

  7. #7

    Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtybird View Post
    That was gonna be my next question, how is it different for state and private. You mentioned it works better for privates but I thought there was state funding that state schools got but privates did not. Also privates are much more expensive to attend in most cases.
    I meant the context of he can it explain it much better ... not that it works much better. Sorry for the confusion.

    You are correct they do cost more and usually have tougher admission standards. The privates can drastically discount tuition. The public schools cannot.

    Down your way I believe, on the surface anyway, Wheeling Jesuit's tuition is double WL's.

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    Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    The state-owned PSAC schools (everyone but Gannon, Mercyhurst, Pitt-Johnstown, and Seton Hill) must raise every dollar they award in athletic scholarships. Whether its from alumni donations, ticket sales, sponsorships, etc. it can't come from tuition or state appropriation. The athletic scholarship dollars they award is real money (endowments or revenue) they use to pay the student's bill.

    The private schools work like a car dealership. They advertise an inflated sticker price that very few actually pay but instead of the net price being negotiable they piece it out in awards/grants/scholarships whatever you want to call it. $5,000 off sticker for having a decent GPA & SAT. $4,000 because you'll play football. Just like the local Chevy dealer offers $500 for a first-time buyer, loyalty, college grad, or military. Its a discount rather than $500 someone gave them to reduce the price of the car.

    Pitt Johnstown is somewhere in between. They're state-funded but not state-owned or state-controlled. My guess is that UPJ can budget the discount but obviously they don't have the price flexibility of the private schools.

    Hope that helps.

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    Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    The state-owned PSAC schools (everyone but Gannon, Mercyhurst, Pitt-Johnstown, and Seton Hill) must raise every dollar they award in athletic scholarships. Whether its from alumni donations, ticket sales, sponsorships, etc. it can't come from tuition or state appropriation. The athletic scholarship dollars they award is real money (endowments or revenue) they use to pay the student's bill.

    The private schools work like a car dealership. They advertise an inflated sticker price that very few actually pay but instead of the net price being negotiable they piece it out in awards/grants/scholarships whatever you want to call it. $5,000 off sticker for having a decent GPA & SAT. $4,000 because you'll play football. Just like the local Chevy dealer offers $500 for a first-time buyer, loyalty, college grad, or military. Its a discount rather than $500 someone gave them to reduce the price of the car.

    Pitt Johnstown is somewhere in between. They're state-funded but not state-owned or state-controlled. My guess is that UPJ can budget the discount but obviously they don't have the price flexibility of the private schools.

    Hope that helps.
    Publics have ways of reducing tuition but it is much more structured and limited than a private. Scholarship athletes "pay" the tuition that fits with were they are from (in-state, out of state, metro/commuting area, etc.). It doesn't compare with the flexibility a private has but it is something that can factor into who a public makes an offer to.

  10. Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    Enough info that even I understand now. Thanks everyone.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    Publics have ways of reducing tuition but it is much more structured and limited than a private. Scholarship athletes "pay" the tuition that fits with were they are from (in-state, out of state, metro/commuting area, etc.). It doesn't compare with the flexibility a private has but it is something that can factor into who a public makes an offer to.
    But in the case of highly talented students with good test scores (oh, and who can also shoot and rebound), coaches can get a "freebie." CJ Hester, Evan French, Alex Falk, and other players like that have, I believe, qualified for the university's Scholars program. I don't know the specifics, but it's highly possible that guys like these received darn near a full ride as STUDENTS using the university's academic scholarships, so the basketball team wouldn't have to use one of their 10 scholarships (or at least not much of one--maybe just chipping in for room and board, thereby spreading a single scholarship among a variety of talented academic students) on guys like that. So, if you recruit smart kids who can also play ball--which WLU does seem to do with some regularity--your 3 "non-scholarship" players on the roster aren't necessarily walk-ons; they're guys with academic money. Imagine if you can get an Alex Falk with academic money (based on his test scores), and then STILL have 10 more scholly's to spend. That's pretty smart allocation if you can pull it off.

    And none of this takes into the account the two years of FREE Dan Monteroso (given that both of his parents are employees of the university and can cash in a tuition benefit, as I understand it). Obviously, Dante Lombardi works the same way at IUP I imagine.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    Quote Originally Posted by Tech Boys View Post
    Those 13 D1 scholarships is headcount, not equivalencies.

    Here is a good site for scholarship info: http://www.scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits.html
    Good info thanks. So d1 can only give full rides. If they cannot afford 13 but 10, only 10 get athletic scholarships.
    Exception: service academies have no limits as everyone gets a full ride, athlete or not.

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    Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbuseer View Post
    Good info thanks. So d1 can only give full rides. If they cannot afford 13 but 10, only 10 get athletic scholarships.
    Exception: service academies have no limits as everyone gets a full ride, athlete or not.
    Plus Ivy League. They're the only non-scholarship D1 basketball league

  14. Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbuseer View Post
    Good info thanks. So d1 can only give full rides. If they cannot afford 13 but 10, only 10 get athletic scholarships.
    Exception: service academies have no limits as everyone gets a full ride, athlete or not.
    Kind of amazing how the service academies can recruit high caliber D-I athletes when you consider that you need very good grades and overall record with extra-circulars plus must receive an appointment to just get in the door.

    I was at the Naval Academy (not as a midshipman) when David Robinson played there. The really crazy thing about him is (at the time at least) that those types of schools would not accept guys over say 6-5 or 6-6. The story is that he grew some six inches or so once there if one is to believe that or not.

    But you are correct that those attending the academies do not pay tuition. They are actually paid a stipend for attending.

    -

  15. #15

    Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    Quote Originally Posted by IUP CRIMSON HAWKS View Post
    Kind of amazing how the service academies can recruit high caliber D-I athletes when you consider that you need very good grades and overall record with extra-circulars plus must receive an appointment to just get in the door.

    I was at the Naval Academy (not as a midshipman) when David Robinson played there. The really crazy thing about him is (at the time at least) that those types of schools would not accept guys over say 6-5 or 6-6. The story is that he grew some six inches or so once there if one is to believe that or not.

    But you are correct that those attending the academies do not pay tuition. They are actually paid a stipend for attending.

    -
    Another thing I did not know is that the service academies are very highly regarded universities in many majors.
    Also they don't take screw-ups regardless of their GPA. Academy appointees have their act together.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbuseer View Post
    Another thing I did not know is that the service academies are very highly regarded universities in many majors.
    Also they don't take screw-ups regardless of their GPA. Academy appointees have their act together.
    Look up the required academics to get in to the service academies. Insane. The procedure to get in to Annapolis is insane.

  17. Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbuseer View Post
    Another thing I did not know is that the service academies are very highly regarded universities in many majors.
    Also they don't take screw-ups regardless of their GPA. Academy appointees have their act together.
    Generally speaking, yes. But like all other places it also had a seamy underside to it as well. For instance, when I spent time there they were under the leadership of a superintendent named Admiral Charles Larson (look him up---IMPRESSIVE record).

    I believe it was around 1993-1994 or so that Admiral Larson was brought back on board as superintendent there after the academy suffered from a rash of problems that threatened the very fabric of the place. Cheating, drugs, sexual assaults, etc. were plaguing the institution. They had their problems there as well. Don't be fooled by the glossy veneer.

    But the majority of the midshipman were beyond incredible young men and women!

    Also agree on the fab academics. Many terrific engineering programs offered there.

    One thing is that I don't think the average person realizes the utter danger that these grads of these places face. I recall taking a cyber tour of a few of the classes alumni pages that I knew people in about a decade or so after their graduation and was appalled at how many of them had been killed in training flights and the like. It is a dangerous business!

    Remember former Navy QB Alton Grizzard? He was killed a year or two after graduating there (though it was not in the line of duty).

    -

  18. #18

    Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    I think in most cases, "fully funded" is a term used when a D2 school has 10 equivalencies. I do not think the designation of public or private matters when it comes to the equivalencies, as far as being "fully funded".

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    Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    Quote Originally Posted by PSAC76 View Post
    I think in most cases, "fully funded" is a term used when a D2 school has 10 equivalencies. I do not think the designation of public or private matters when it comes to the equivalencies, as far as being "fully funded".
    There doesn't seem to be any hard and fast definition of what "fully funded" means. We talk about scholarship equivalencies but those are just numbers on a page. Scholarships are funded by dollars and players cost different amounts based on were they are from (in-state, out of state, etc). In WLU's case, 10 scholly equivalencies for in-state players would be $76,800/yr while if they chose to recruit all out of state players, it would cost them $156,200/yr. I'd say a team can legitimately say they are "fully funded" if they have enough money in their basketball scholly account to pay for 10 in-state tuitions.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Fully funded vs not fully funded

    That is probably a good assessment. I do not know all of the details, but that was what I understood things to be

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