Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 74

Thread: Black Monday

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Holland, MI
    Posts
    2,776
    Contribute to D2
    Rep Power
    101721

    Default Black Monday

    Well today starts a few of the black Mondays that I tell you about every year...so let's get this straight now and repeat each Monday til the football season is over...

    Black Monday is that day that the " complete idiot " of a coach of your favorite team finally gets fired. You know the guy with a wife and kids and a mom and dad and all that mushy stuff.

    Well that idiot did not produce a championship and we have the players, the stadium, the band and everything he needs...actually so do most of the other teams in your conference...everyone gets the same number of shollys..some schools are easier to get into maybe? Well that's a shame really because the best coaches produce men that will graduate and become guys that you would want to be in your family, your business, your associates. But damn it they didn't win it all. Losers...yea..sure...

    Actually in almost every locker room the season ends the same way..with a burning loss. Seniors weap, lots of hugs, lots of promises to stay close, lots of coaches saying they wish they could do more for the kids..and they all mean it. But in reality life takes over and guys move on to do amazing things in life.

    We have a guy in our locker room that is going to do medical research. We have a guy that is going to be a doctor. We have a guy that is going to be a teacher and a coach. We have one guy that will be a stand up comedian. We also have MAYBE 1-2 guys that will go on to the NFL...maybe..tough job,,,

    Well all these guys had a coach that you thinks sucks that needs to be fired...ok...fire that loser...and bring in who? And by the way when you fire that fool, you also can about 30-50 people that all work at the pleasure of the head coach. So all those families are out looking for a new gig..moving families, moving kids, changing schools, new house, new state, new life again...

    I wish we could all walk into your office and fire your ass for no using the proper TPS cover sheet Peter. Before you cheer too loud to can that moron be sure you know what you are asking for. Before you tell the AD that you are going to sit on your check book until that guy is gone think about who you really hurt.

    Should some coaches be fired? Yea..a few probably should..and at the highest levels they are paid pretty good and will land on their feet and be ok...but ask their kids how they like the new school, make any new friends today Bobby? Sarah all those girls cant be that mean, come on.

    At the lower levels it's not all that easy...no big bonus or payouts to fall back on. Not at D2 or D3 or NAIA or JUCO or High School.

    I read in a book by my friend Tim Selgo how everyone told him to fire Brian Kelly. Tim didn't fire Kelly and look what happened...would have been easy, maybe would have made it easier for Selgo..but easy and success are not found in the same sentence often. Buy the book on Amazon its a great read about leadership. Anchor Up by Tim Selgo.

    Anyway...think about things and be a little careful for what you wish for...and frankly I don't know why for the life of me why anyone wants to coach anything at times, you gotta be nuts. You are either fired or on your way to being fired, for what..so you can work 100 hour weeks? Miss a ton of your family time, work sick, work hurt, work your ass off so some guy in section 206 can swear at you during the game?

    I wish everyone could spend a few hours in a locker room with these amazing athletes, or on the field, on the court, in the gym...special people...treat them with the same respect that they treat your children..

    3 NCAA college football teams will end as winners this year, the rest..well they must suck huh? Ask that expert in section 206..you know the guy that has never been punched in the nose to see how his plan worked out. I would love to see that guy say the same things to a coaches face...coward in the crowd.

    Anchor Up friends and please keep these families in your hearts and prayers over the next few weeks...Black Monday is real and so are the faces that go with it. Get a break and think about things a little bit...life is hard...coaching is harder.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Lake of the Ozarks
    Posts
    1,422
    Rep Power
    60552

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by champgymusa View Post
    Well today starts a few of the black Mondays that I tell you about every year...so let's get this straight now and repeat each Monday til the football season is over...

    Black Monday is that day that the " complete idiot " of a coach of your favorite team finally gets fired. You know the guy with a wife and kids and a mom and dad and all that mushy stuff.

    Well that idiot did not produce a championship and we have the players, the stadium, the band and everything he needs...actually so do most of the other teams in your conference...everyone gets the same number of shollys..some schools are easier to get into maybe? Well that's a shame really because the best coaches produce men that will graduate and become guys that you would want to be in your family, your business, your associates. But damn it they didn't win it all. Losers...yea..sure...

    Actually in almost every locker room the season ends the same way..with a burning loss. Seniors weap, lots of hugs, lots of promises to stay close, lots of coaches saying they wish they could do more for the kids..and they all mean it. But in reality life takes over and guys move on to do amazing things in life.

    We have a guy in our locker room that is going to do medical research. We have a guy that is going to be a doctor. We have a guy that is going to be a teacher and a coach. We have one guy that will be a stand up comedian. We also have MAYBE 1-2 guys that will go on to the NFL...maybe..tough job,,,

    Well all these guys had a coach that you thinks sucks that needs to be fired...ok...fire that loser...and bring in who? And by the way when you fire that fool, you also can about 30-50 people that all work at the pleasure of the head coach. So all those families are out looking for a new gig..moving families, moving kids, changing schools, new house, new state, new life again...

    I wish we could all walk into your office and fire your ass for no using the proper TPS cover sheet Peter. Before you cheer too loud to can that moron be sure you know what you are asking for. Before you tell the AD that you are going to sit on your check book until that guy is gone think about who you really hurt.

    Should some coaches be fired? Yea..a few probably should..and at the highest levels they are paid pretty good and will land on their feet and be ok...but ask their kids how they like the new school, make any new friends today Bobby? Sarah all those girls cant be that mean, come on.

    At the lower levels it's not all that easy...no big bonus or payouts to fall back on. Not at D2 or D3 or NAIA or JUCO or High School.

    I read in a book by my friend Tim Selgo how everyone told him to fire Brian Kelly. Tim didn't fire Kelly and look what happened...would have been easy, maybe would have made it easier for Selgo..but easy and success are not found in the same sentence often. Buy the book on Amazon its a great read about leadership. Anchor Up by Tim Selgo.

    Anyway...think about things and be a little careful for what you wish for...and frankly I don't know why for the life of me why anyone wants to coach anything at times, you gotta be nuts. You are either fired or on your way to being fired, for what..so you can work 100 hour weeks? Miss a ton of your family time, work sick, work hurt, work your ass off so some guy in section 206 can swear at you during the game?

    I wish everyone could spend a few hours in a locker room with these amazing athletes, or on the field, on the court, in the gym...special people...treat them with the same respect that they treat your children..

    3 NCAA college football teams will end as winners this year, the rest..well they must suck huh? Ask that expert in section 206..you know the guy that has never been punched in the nose to see how his plan worked out. I would love to see that guy say the same things to a coaches face...coward in the crowd.

    Anchor Up friends and please keep these families in your hearts and prayers over the next few weeks...Black Monday is real and so are the faces that go with it. Get a break and think about things a little bit...life is hard...coaching is harder.
    Wow, nice job Champ! I attended a football clinic many years ago when Lee Corso was still the coach at Indiana and he made the statement that there are two kinds of coaches, those that have been fired and those that are about to be. Thought at the time that he was missing the boat. Found out (the hard way) he was spot on. I coached for 32 years and must admit that I loved it. I hope that more people read your posts, Champ. Thank you for speaking up! Don't forget to thank those players and coaches for all their hard work.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    14,992
    Rep Power
    1000000

    Default Re: Black Monday

    I agree with most of the premise of the post, but let's not act like it is the same thing. It is a little different from firing a private employee at a private place of business, though. University coaches are having their salaries paid for by taxpayers, students, and donors. So it is a little different situation. 95% of the coaches who get fired end up with a position making essentially the same amount of money by the next football season. I'm not going to be upset about the personal life of a fired coach who was making six figures (in D2) or seven figures (in D1) and is going to get a job making essentially the same amount somewhere else within a few months. Maybe that makes me heartless. Sure, I feel bad for kids who have to change schools. But they're also going to go through college with no debt and most likely not have to work a day in their lives if they don't want to.

    On a related note - do people realize GV hasn't had to fire a single athletics coach since...I don't even know when. Who was the last athletics coach to be fired or let go? It's gotta be at least 20 years. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    126
    Rep Power
    14348

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by KleShreen View Post
    I agree with most of the premise of the post, but let's not act like it is the same thing. It is a little different from firing a private employee at a private place of business, though. University coaches are having their salaries paid for by taxpayers, students, and donors. So it is a little different situation. 95% of the coaches who get fired end up with a position making essentially the same amount of money by the next football season. I'm not going to be upset about the personal life of a fired coach who was making six figures (in D2) or seven figures (in D1) and is going to get a job making essentially the same amount somewhere else within a few months. Maybe that makes me heartless. Sure, I feel bad for kids who have to change schools. But they're also going to go through college with no debt and most likely not have to work a day in their lives if they don't want to.

    On a related note - do people realize GV hasn't had to fire a single athletics coach since...I don't even know when. Who was the last athletics coach to be fired or let go? It's gotta be at least 20 years. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
    I think these coaches know what they got into. The people that marry into this life know that it could be place to place while moving up the chain. Teams with realistic expectations of success and under perform, I believe the HC should be accountable. Give him a chance to get his team through recruiting and then the accountability starts. Coaches know what they get into and the expectations..

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Omaha, NE Area
    Posts
    43,565
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    12500

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by FSUBulldog27 View Post
    I think these coaches know what they got into. The people that marry into this life know that it could be place to place while moving up the chain. Teams with realistic expectations of success and under perform, I believe the HC should be accountable. Give him a chance to get his team through recruiting and then the accountability starts. Coaches know what they get into and the expectations..
    This is something I agree with. If you don't perform at work do they just let you not perform for the company? No they will usually make some changes to help you fit, if that doesn't work you usually get fired. Private sector or not. Different jobs and positions have different set expectations. I also agree coaches go into a job realizing they have to produce.

    That being said I find it incredibly hard to want to fire a coach who's went 10-2 for the season and the playoffs. If you want to fire a coach who did that, wait until he misses the playoffs. Hard to fire a coach that is one of 28 coaches who make the playoffs out of 153 teams. (I think it's 153 teams this year.) At that point even if he's the worst coach of those 28 he's still top 20% of all coaches.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    14,992
    Rep Power
    1000000

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by FSUBulldog27 View Post
    I think these coaches know what they got into. The people that marry into this life know that it could be place to place while moving up the chain. Teams with realistic expectations of success and under perform, I believe the HC should be accountable. Give him a chance to get his team through recruiting and then the accountability starts. Coaches know what they get into and the expectations..
    Yea, that too. It is a compromise. You get paid an insane amount of money, but you have to put up with moves around the country. Seems like a pretty good trade-off.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    In the "D"
    Posts
    2,159
    Rep Power
    2047

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Some have been calling for WSU Coach Winters to be fired, and they ask me for my thoughts; I generally say this: I didn't advocate for him to get that nice bonus and extension on his contract when he took the team to the NCAA National Championship, or the year earlier when he won the GLIAC South crown, or when he coached our first Harlon Hill winner ...he earned those accolades and extensions on his own. The administration saw what the team was doing...So now that the team is playing poorly and last in the GLIAC, I'm not advocating his demise, if that comes, he'll earn that on his own too...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Holland, MI
    Posts
    2,776
    Rep Power
    101721

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by KleShreen View Post
    Yea, that too. It is a compromise. You get paid an insane amount of money, but you have to put up with moves around the country. Seems like a pretty good trade-off.
    Get your head out of your ass..I am not taking about the head coaches at D1, they usually end up ok...how about the assistant at a D3 or a D2 school...those making insane money? A good trade off? wow...its not Bama and ND ya know...and yes GV has fired a few coaches..they either moved on or decided to spend more time with their families. You are a stats guy look em up scooter.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    14,992
    Rep Power
    1000000

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by MDRussell View Post
    Some have been calling for WSU Coach Winters to be fired, and they ask me for my thoughts; I generally say this: I didn't advocate for him to get that nice bonus and extension on his contract when he took the team to the NCAA National Championship, or the year earlier when he won the GLIAC South crown, or when he coached our first Harlon Hill winner ...he earned those accolades and extensions on his own. The administration saw what the team was doing...So now that the team is playing poorly and last in the GLIAC, I'm not advocating his demise, if that comes, he'll earn that on his own too...
    Winters needs to go, man.

    You are coming dangerously close to a point where Wayne State players will have PARENTS who weren't even born the last time Wayne beat GV.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    14,992
    Rep Power
    1000000

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by champgymusa View Post
    Get your head out of your ass..I am not taking about the head coaches at D1, they usually end up ok...how about the assistant at a D3 or a D2 school...those making insane money? A good trade off? wow...its not Bama and ND ya know...and yes GV has fired a few coaches..they either moved on or decided to spend more time with their families. You are a stats guy look em up scooter.
    The assistants know what they're signing up for when they get in to it. Again, it is a compromise. They know what kind of money they are making, and they know the odds are that they're not going to be at the same place forever. If an assistant is a good assistant, they're not going to be fired, even if the HC is. They'll be kept on by the new coach, or they'll get the same position at another school. Everyone knows it sucks to get fired, but I just don't want to hear the bleeding heart story about it when even D2 and D3 assistants are on a career track that is going to put them among the top 5% of earners in the country if they are good at their jobs. If they get let go and then don't get a new job, then it is no different than any regular joe who gets fired and has to start over. Happens every day in every walk of life. Football coaches aren't immune to that or worthy of special treatment if it happens to them. And the football coaches have much better odds of falling up, or falling sideways if they do lose their job somewhere. Just feels like you're trying to tell us to feel bad for the lottery winner who lost 100 bucks in the wash.

    Your condescension at the end is duly noted. You should be better than that. I was trying to give GV a compliment, and even then you have to be a d-bag about it. I can not recall off the top of my head the last coach in any sport at GV being fired. A couple have stepped down, like the women's basketball and lacrosse coaches, but they were not fired. They willingly quit. And we don't hear about assistants being fired, so maybe it has happened, I have no idea. That's why it was posed the way it was, "scooter."

    I know you genuinely care for them all and work with them and worry about them, but to paint them as victims just seems a little highfalutin for most coaches who will get walking papers around the country. Maybe you feel more so because of the discussion with our school, I don't know. But nobody is getting fired at GV. Everyone will be alright. Nobody's life is going to be in shambles, even the children.
    Last edited by KleShreen; 11-19-2018 at 11:38 AM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Omaha, NE Area
    Posts
    43,565
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    12500

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by KleShreen View Post
    The assistants know what they're signing up for when they get in to it. Again, it is a compromise. They know what kind of money they are making, and they know the odds are that they're not going to be at the same place forever. If an assistant is a good assistant, they're not going to be fired, even if the HC is. They'll be kept on by the new coach, or they'll get the same position at another school. Everyone knows it sucks to get fired, but I just don't want to hear the bleeding heart story about it when even D2 and D3 assistants are on a career track that is going to put them among the top 5% of earners in the country if they are good at their jobs. If they get let go and then don't get a new job, then it is no different than any regular joe who gets fired and has to start over. Happens every day in every walk of life. Football coaches aren't immune to that or worthy of special treatment if it happens to them. And the football coaches have much better odds of falling up, or falling sideways if they do lose their job somewhere. Just feels like you're trying to tell us to feel bad for the lottery winner who lost 100 bucks in the wash.
    Agreed. If you are an assistant you are in essence putting your resume out there to advance. Coaching is a job where how you perform can get you fired, or get you promoted. So while they are D2/D3 assistants now, there are some that are future head coaches. It's risk/reward type of job.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    14,992
    Rep Power
    1000000

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by JR Chaney View Post
    Other side of it is this. If you are an assistant you are in essence putting your resume out there to advance. Coaching is a job where how you perform can get you fired, or get you promoted. So while they are D2/D3 assistants now, there are some that are future head coaches. It's risk/reward type of job.
    Yep.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    19,340
    Rep Power
    640208

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Great Stuff!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    81
    Rep Power
    310

    Default Re: Black Monday

    I can think of two head coaches that were fired since 2000 - Terry Smith, Men's BB and Claudette Charney, Women's BB.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    14,992
    Rep Power
    1000000

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by tip79 View Post
    I can think of two head coaches that were fired since 2000 - Terry Smith, Men's BB and Claudette Charney, Women's BB.
    Thanks. Those might be the last two. And they both did pretty well for themselves afterwards, haha.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    In the "D"
    Posts
    2,159
    Rep Power
    2047

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by KleShreen View Post
    Winters needs to go, man.

    You are coming dangerously close to a point where Wayne State players will have PARENTS who weren't even born the last time Wayne beat GV.

    Yeah... I played on a team that brought home the wooden shoes and beat Grand valley in 1979... I hate to admit that I don't recall any wins over the Lakers since then.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    14,476
    Rep Power
    1000000

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by KleShreen View Post
    Yea, that too. It is a compromise. You get paid an insane amount of money, but you have to put up with moves around the country. Seems like a pretty good trade-off.
    I am not sure what GV pays their coaches, but I do know that for DII, it is not an "insane amount". I think a small community bank president makes more money than most HCs in DII.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    14,992
    Rep Power
    1000000

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by Runnin' Cat View Post
    I am not sure what GV pays their coaches, but I do know that for DII, it is not an "insane amount". I think a small community bank president makes more money than most HCs in DII.
    I doubt there's many head coaches in D-II who don't make six figures.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,419
    Rep Power
    10960

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by tip79 View Post
    I can think of two head coaches that were fired since 2000 - Terry Smith, Men's BB and Claudette Charney, Women's BB.
    If we are talking GVSU coaches that were fired, I don't recall Charney being fired as GVSU coach, but I think it may have been a resignation under threat of termination. GVSU had a tough year her second to last season, finishing something like 7-19. The program struggled to replace key pieces that graduated in the late 1990's from Charney's best GVSU teams. They did improved to 13-13 in her last season at GVSU before she took the job at Hillsdale.

    I don't recall Smith being fired either, but looking at the team recently, I have to wonder how much time Ric Wesley, the current coach has if Smith was fired after seasons of 15-14, 14-14, 14-13 his last three seasons. Wesley has gone 16-13 and 14-15 the last two seasons.

    There is only one other GVSU coach that I know of that was relieved of their duties as head coach. Dewey Newsome, the first coach the swimming and diving teams was relieved of his duties in about 2006. Dewey was not fired, but was forced to retire after he was unable to complete the duties due to the effects of a stroke he suffered returning from the NCAA championships the previous season. Tim Selgo was quoted as saying that was the toughest thing he had to do as the AD.

    To my knowledge all of the other coaches since 2000 that have left have been on their own, with one possible exception. Dago Cotrez, the first women's soccer coach at GVSU may also have been fired, but from what I recall that wasn't on the field performance based. Supposedly there was something in his contract that required him to obtain a college degree by a certain date and he failed to attain that requirement and was let go. I don't recall all the specifics but I don't think his departure was on his own terms.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Fennville, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    5,758
    Rep Power
    54147

    Default Re: Black Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by KleShreen View Post
    Yea, that too. It is a compromise. You get paid an insane amount of money, but you have to put up with moves around the country. Seems like a pretty good trade-off.
    Insane amount of money? Not sure about rest of D2 but last I knew, Otter wasn't make a ton more than me and I get to play Legos all day and help kids make cookie cutters for their moms on a 3D printer.

    Not only do these guys invest huge amounts of their lives away from their families to make it work, when it doesn't live up to the dreams of a bunch of fans then they get to go into the room of their 8 year-old son, who they don't hardly see anyway, and explain that dad couldn't get the job done and that they'll be looking for a new team to coach. i finished coaching when my daughter was born but I sure remember my old man coming in and telling me we'd be trading in our Maple Valley Lions stuff for some other school soon. Real people with real families.
    Hillsdale ‘94

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •