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Thread: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

  1. #1
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    Default Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Are super region boundaries sacrosanct? Couldn't a 2 loss team that would miss the playoffs because their region has seven teams with 1 or fewer losses, replace a 4 loss team from another region?

    As much as we talk about silos and weak vs strong super regions, I'm wondering why wins and losses are not more important than super region boundaries. I don't mind earned access (even the cruel top 10 version) but what I believe is worst, is a team from a weak region getting in the playoffs with 4 losses while a 2 loss team, that has a realistic shot at winning the NC, has to sit it out.

    This coming from a supporter of a team in one of the weaker conferences.

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    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Huh. What a thought. I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up and discussed like a zillion times already.

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    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by boyblue View Post
    Are super region boundaries sacrosanct? Couldn't a 2 loss team that would miss the playoffs because their region has seven teams with 1 or fewer losses, replace a 4 loss team from another region?

    As much as we talk about silos and weak vs strong super regions, I'm wondering why wins and losses are not more important than super region boundaries. I don't mind earned access (even the cruel top 10 version) but what I believe is worst, is a team from a weak region getting in the playoffs with 4 losses while a 2 loss team, that has a realistic shot at winning the NC, has to sit it out.

    This coming from a supporter of a team in one of the weaker conferences.
    Regionalization is one of the core concepts of the division:

    (2) Athletics. Division II supports athletics achievement through highly competitive programs that strive to participate in the division’s 25 national championships, which offer the best access ratio among the NCAA’s three divisions. Division II also supports a regionalization model in scheduling that reduces time away from campus and keeps athletics participation in perspective within the educational mission;
    It's not always fair, and it's definitely not changing. They've made small adjustments in recent years (re-seeding the elite eight/final four, depending on the sport once they get to a final site), but to win in D2, you have to be the best team in your region. The way it has. The way it is. The way it will be.

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    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horror Child View Post
    Huh. What a thought. I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up and discussed like a zillion times already.
    Would that discussion have been in the general forum, I didn't take part in it but I would like to see everyone's thoughts, could you put a link or search suggestion here, that enable me to find those threads?

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    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Sure. 4 loss team should be disqualified. But I don't think this is a huge problem as most 4 loss teams are eliminated by natural selection. I'm sure there are a couple of cat/dogs out there that have made it into the playoff field with 4 losses but I would imagine not many.

    If you did disqualify four loss teams from consideration, why would the replacement need to come from another region? Seems like every year each region has some good 2 or 3 loss teams that didn't get selected. Seems like the best answer would be to move those team(s) up rather than going out of region to get someone else's 2 or 3 loss team.

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    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Last year SR4 had 4 2 loss teams get left at home.

    If you dont want to get left at home win.

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    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boohaha View Post
    Last year SR4 had 4 2 loss teams get left at home.

    If you dont want to get left at home win.
    Agreed, now stop complaining about getting left out last year.

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    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbonium View Post
    Agreed, now stop complaining about getting left out last year.
    Im not complaining, just pointing out facts that are sometimes hard to take, even for me!

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    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbonium View Post
    Agreed, now stop complaining about getting left out last year.
    Actually it's just the opposite. It's not about us getting in, VSU didn't deserve to be in last year (5-4). I was just thinking, we know R1 & R2 are weaker, so a 4 loss team from one of these regions is going nowhere. They should be replaced with a team from R3 or R4 that has a realistic shot at a NC. We have the earned access exception, why not EA 2.0, this would make up for the region strength and number of teams disparity.

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    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by boyblue View Post
    Actually it's just the opposite. It's not about us getting in, VSU didn't deserve to be in last year (5-4). I was just thinking, we know R1 & R2 are weaker, so a 4 loss team from one of these regions is going nowhere. They should be replaced with a team from R3 or R4 that has a realistic shot at a NC. We have the earned access exception, why not EA 2.0, this would make up for the region strength and number of teams disparity.
    Look who I quoted, my response has nothing to do with you.

    Long story short, to answer your question, is that it is all about money and travel. Over I think now 600 miles (was 500) and the NCAA pays for flights, you think they care enough to fly Colorado Mines out to play West Georgia? No.

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    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by boyblue View Post
    Actually it's just the opposite. It's not about us getting in, VSU didn't deserve to be in last year (5-4). I was just thinking, we know R1 & R2 are weaker, so a 4 loss team from one of these regions is going nowhere. They should be replaced with a team from R3 or R4 that has a realistic shot at a NC. We have the earned access exception, why not EA 2.0, this would make up for the region strength and number of teams disparity.
    Harding last year was a 3 loss team, from what is considered historically a poor performing conference.

    Tread into treacherous waters when we start doing things like that.

    only way to change things up is to rank teams 1-28 tgen regionalize after. This would still give problems, as there are several "top 25" teams that are ranked by past reputation instead of current reality.

  12. Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    What if every Conference was balanced
    Example: 10 teams
    Top 5 teams all with 4 losses
    Bottom 5 teams all with 6 losses

    Or if every team in a Conference had the same record and their winning percentage was 50%

  13. #13

    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boohaha View Post
    Harding last year was a 3 loss team, from what is considered historically a poor performing conference.

    Tread into treacherous waters when we start doing things like that.

    only way to change things up is to rank teams 1-28 tgen regionalize after. This would still give problems, as there are several "top 25" teams that are ranked by past reputation instead of current reality.
    If Harding had lost to Indy in the first game, that would have looked bad. However, making it all the way to the semis, all on the road, made the committees decision look pretty smart.

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    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShirtedBearcat View Post
    If Harding had lost to Indy in the first game, that would have looked bad. However, making it all the way to the semis, all on the road, made the committees decision look pretty smart.
    I think that was his point.

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    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbonium View Post
    I think that was his point.
    I agree that three loss teams should not be touched and I'm sure there's an exception where a 4 loss team has won a first or even second round game but I just believe that a 2 loss team from a tough region is more deserving than a 4 loss team from another region. The earned access rule is kinda arbitrary so how about we tweak such that:

    If a 7th place team in any region has 4 losses and has not earned placement by earned access, such a team is superseded by a team from another region ranked 8th with 2 or less losses.

    A tiebreaker would have to be established for instances where there are more than one such teams.

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    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by boyblue View Post
    I agree that three loss teams should not be touched and I'm sure there's an exception where a 4 loss team has won a first or even second round game but I just believe that a 2 loss team from a tough region is more deserving than a 4 loss team from another region. The earned access rule is kinda arbitrary so how about we tweak such that:

    If a 7th place team in any region has 4 losses and has not earned placement by earned access, such a team is superseded by a team from another region ranked 8th with 2 or less losses.

    A tiebreaker would have to be established for instances where there are more than one such teams.
    In college football the regular season is the playoffs(doesnt mean im a fan of fbs system).

    With regionalization the best 7 teams from each region play each other to advance to a national semifinal.

    If a team is not good enough to be ranked in the top 7 of their region then why should they displace a team from another region?

    Often times rankings are not accurate, espsially national ones. Regional committees are made up of members from their region, they know the schools they are compairing. It is not a national process. If it did switch to a national process you would have upstart teams being left at home with a better record vs a school with better name recognition.

    Case in point Harding getting in over GVSU.
    On a national poll GVSU gets in every time over harding.

    If we are going to talk about ammending things, last year 4 2 loss teams were left out in SR4, why should a 3 loss team be getting in over them. Commerce won the Natty and all but 1 game in Region 4 was very competitive.

    Regionalization works. But if the big conferences keep their Silo Scheduling they need to go to 8 teams and no bye week for number 1 to help make sure we get every team with a shot in the po's.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by boyblue View Post
    I agree that three loss teams should not be touched and I'm sure there's an exception where a 4 loss team has won a first or even second round game but I just believe that a 2 loss team from a tough region is more deserving than a 4 loss team from another region. The earned access rule is kinda arbitrary so how about we tweak such that:

    If a 7th place team in any region has 4 losses and has not earned placement by earned access, such a team is superseded by a team from another region ranked 8th with 2 or less losses.

    A tiebreaker would have to be established for instances where there are more than one such teams.
    Boohaha beat me to it, but with silo scheduling its hard to tell that one conference or region is down and another up. Another issue is travel expense and the lack of ability for some teams to travel out of region if they make the playoffs as a "stronger" team.

    While the system isn't perfect I think it gets it right about 95% of the time which I will happily take.

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    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallst View Post
    Boohaha beat me to it, but with silo scheduling its hard to tell that one conference or region is down and another up. Another issue is travel expense and the lack of ability for some teams to travel out of region if they make the playoffs as a "stronger" team.

    While the system isn't perfect I think it gets it right about 95% of the time which I will happily take.
    WAY WAY better than FBS 4 team crap.


    Seriously after the talent UCF put in the draft last year folks dont think those boys could not have had a legit shot at beating Bama?

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    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boohaha View Post
    WAY WAY better than FBS 4 team crap.


    Seriously after the talent UCF put in the draft last year folks dont think those boys could not have had a legit shot at beating Bama?
    Well, Boise State had no chance of beating Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl either. WAC as a conference was worse than the AAC and it was easy to notice the year the WAC and MWC both had undefeated teams they didn't want either against a Power 5 school as TCU and Boise State played eachother.

    You are right, D2's system is a whole lot better even if the best 2 teams also ranked #1 and #2 are in the same SR like in 2009. It's a shame that game wasn't shown to a national audience, as it was the best of the playoffs that year.

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    Default Re: Shouldn't 4 losses disqualify a team from the playoffs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boohaha View Post
    WAY WAY better than FBS 4 team crap.


    Seriously after the talent UCF put in the draft last year folks dont think those boys could not have had a legit shot at beating Bama?
    Just no....and I hate Bama.

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