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Thread: How can we encourage more OOC games

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    Default How can we encourage more OOC games

    Games against D1 & NAIA do not count towards the playoffs but they're still scheduled. If those games were disallowed might that force teams to play outside their region. We can't force conferences to play OOC games but if OOC wins were weighted more heavily in the playoff formulation wouldn't this encourage a change. For that matter what if they weighed OOR wins even more heavily wouldn't that be cool?

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    You want to encourage in region OOC games more than out of region with the limited total game count in football. It lets you get a much better picture if an extra loss or two in one conference is still a stronger team than another direct playoff competition team in another conference in today's regional rules.

    Something quick off the top of my head is two games per team is applied a .01 increase in weight of factoring games. This encourages a conference to get two OOC games to raise the whole conference ratings but doesn't overpower it to where an independent or super small conference gets too much of a boost that might encourage teams to drop out of conferences or conferences to shed lower tier teams. Probably flaws in it but should be something similar that can be done to force conferences out of the silo crap.

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by NewCatEyez View Post
    You want to encourage in region OOC games more than out of region with the limited total game count in football. It lets you get a much better picture if an extra loss or two in one conference is still a stronger team than another direct playoff competition team in another conference in today's regional rules.

    Something quick off the top of my head is two games per team is applied a .01 increase in weight of factoring games. This encourages a conference to get two OOC games to raise the whole conference ratings but doesn't overpower it to where an independent or super small conference gets too much of a boost that might encourage teams to drop out of conferences or conferences to shed lower tier teams. Probably flaws in it but should be something similar that can be done to force conferences out of the silo crap.
    No argument from me, but when half the conferences in a region are silo scheduled, there isn't much left to choose from. And for some teams, others just don't want to play them. I know at least some of those teams are in the GLIAC. It really is tough filling out the schedule.

    So before they encourage in region games, some extra value might be given for ANY OOC game. Or alternatively, some subtraction for an all in-conference schedule. Maybe that would open up more in region possibilities?

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    The silo scheduling is ten times the problem more so than NAIA or FCS games IMO. With a few exceptions it seems like those games are usually taken because the team can’t find a reasonable D2 game. Until it affects where teams are seeded in the playoffs nothing will change.

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by twolfbenchwarmer View Post
    The silo scheduling is ten times the problem more so than NAIA or FCS games IMO. With a few exceptions it seems like those games are usually taken because the team can’t find a reasonable D2 game. Until it affects where teams are seeded in the playoffs nothing will change.
    Truth- they have had ample opportunities to do that in SR3 several times since the MIAA went to a silo schedule, but instead it seems like they actually rewarded the MIAA team.

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    If they factored in only 8 or 9 conference games that would do the trick aye?

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    About 5 years or so ago, the ncaa D2 added a bylaw to the manual setting the standard for regional rankings and standards..

    it lasted in the ncaa manual for 2 years...

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by twolfbenchwarmer View Post
    The silo scheduling is ten times the problem more so than NAIA or FCS games IMO. With a few exceptions it seems like those games are usually taken because the team can’t find a reasonable D2 game. Until it affects where teams are seeded in the playoffs nothing will change.
    I agree about naia, but the FCS games are normally taken for a paycheck.

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    There used to be a rule that made games against non regional teams count as in region if the state's bordered each other.

    The NCAA should tell the conferences to play ooc games or kiss the playoffs goodbye. That's the only way it's going to end.

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    One of the challenges is the size of the conferences. The larger conferences typically only allow for one open week - and that open week doesn't always line up with others. Then of course you have some conferences (who shall remain anonymous) scheduling a full 11-week conference schedule without any opportunity for OOC games.

    Another challenge is cost. A lot of D2 schools are regional state schools who have decreasing budgets. That means less money to take 75 people on an overnight trip. Very few D2 schools produce enough revenue to give a guarantee. This is especially an issue in regions where schools insist on noon kickoffs. If you're six hours apart you're not leaving a 4am for a noon kickoff.

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    Games like West Georgia v. Minnesota State, Grand Valley v. Valdosta State, CSU-Pueblo v. Northwest Missouri if they happened regularly, would grow interest in D2 football. High School games are now nationally televised between regional powers because of the broad appeal. I'm not strictly against the silos per se, I just think that exposure helps teams, helps the young men, and helps D2 football.

    Another point, a few years back half of the GAC was a part of the GSC so I'm familiar with them and still sorta root for them from afar. When they left, the LSC bailed us out with some home & home games, so I'm now familiar with the LSC. In 2012 We opened the our season with a thousand mile trek to Saginaw. We lost the game but ended up winning the NC that year, so I still keep in touch with how that program is doing. Fans would benefit by becoming more familiar with other programs and D2 as a whole.

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    One of the challenges is the size of the conferences. The larger conferences typically only allow for one open week - and that open week doesn't always line up with others. Then of course you have some conferences (who shall remain anonymous) scheduling a full 11-week conference schedule without any opportunity for OOC games.

    Another challenge is cost. A lot of D2 schools are regional state schools who have decreasing budgets. That means less money to take 75 people on an overnight trip. Very few D2 schools produce enough revenue to give a guarantee. This is especially an issue in regions where schools insist on noon kickoffs. If you're six hours apart you're not leaving a 4am for a noon kickoff.
    You're right, it's going to cost, which means we'd need a corporate partner. I took a look at the administrational structure of D2, and it is not organized in such a way that this subject would ever come up, which means it'll never happen.

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by WVIAC-F-EVER View Post
    About 5 years or so ago, the ncaa D2 added a bylaw to the manual setting the standard for regional rankings and standards..

    it lasted in the ncaa manual for 2 years...
    It lasted longer that the regional ranking transparency that the NCAA said they were going to engage in. That lasted less than one year ending the week before the actual playoff selections were made.

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    Conferences are simply mimicking what has proven to be a successful way of getting multiple teams into the playoffs. A conference that is siloed basically takes the SOS variable out of the equation by insuring every one of its member schools have a .500. Their argument is that with a .500 SOS, a team with no or one loss on the season will probably be a shoe in for playoff selection and a two loss team will have a pretty good chance as well. A conference that has multiple OOC games is not only relying on the quality (Opponents winning %) of the teams the conference front runner schedules, but also the quality of games the conference back markers schedules (Opponents opponents winning %).

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    Never going to happen but put a cap on amount of schools in a conference? It would lead to scheduling alliances that amount to the same as OOC games but would essentially create a system like the NSIC uses

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    One of the challenges is the size of the conferences. The larger conferences typically only allow for one open week - and that open week doesn't always line up with others.
    I'm not buying it. Any conference that has a rotating off week is not related to OOC issues. That happens with an odd number of schools in the conference which is when it would have trouble lining up with other available teams. Large or small, that is a conference fail if it happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    Then of course you have some conferences (who shall remain anonymous) scheduling a full 11-week conference schedule without any opportunity for OOC games.
    No pulling punches. The MIAA started this crap for the conferences in the Midwest and are responsible for the mess they made. No excuses and it has been a very vocal part of objection by the fans of the teams since it was even rumored. Needs to be corrected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    Another challenge is cost. A lot of D2 schools are regional state schools who have decreasing budgets. That means less money to take 75 people on an overnight trip. Very few D2 schools produce enough revenue to give a guarantee. This is especially an issue in regions where schools insist on noon kickoffs. If you're six hours apart you're not leaving a 4am for a noon kickoff.
    Again, not buying it. Just in the MIAA for example Kearney/UCO/NSU were added stretching the boundaries north and south. Hays (although getting dated at this point) and Lindenwood were added stretching the footprint east and west. Any of those could have been used as OOC for schools for when they were closer but still allowing options for those schools now being forced to travel farther.

    Here are some rough average distances travelled for NW over the years using city to city distance of regular season opponents:
    2000/2001 - 2332 miles total, 12 games - avg 194 miles per non home game (Mankato and UNO on schedule as OOC)
    2008/2009 - 2433 miles total, 12 games - avg 203 miles per non home game (ACU)
    2017/2018 - 2626 miles total, 12 games - avg 218 miles per non home game(none)

    The silo scheduling has resulted in roughly 15-25 miles more travel per game than was needed in the past. It has INCREASED the travel time, distance and costs. The only thing it has helped is making peoples jobs lazy in scheduling.

    This includes going to Abilene, TX for an out of conference matchup in 2009 (~700 miles).
    Mankato is actually even closer than any of Hays, Lindenwood, UCO or NSU as well for early 2000s vs today. (Various routes can interchange distances with Hays and Lindenwood as they are about a half hour time closer, although ~10 miles farther, from Maryville)

  17. #17

    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    Here is the latest D2 regional map

    https://ncaad2rules.blogspot.com/2018/10/201819-ncaa-d2-regional-opponent-map.html?m=1
    Last edited by WVIAC-F-EVER; 10-24-2018 at 02:59 PM. Reason: Adding link

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by WVIAC-F-EVER View Post
    https://ncaad2rules.blogspot.com/201...t-map.html?m=1 clickable for you now. It should be noted that GNAC is in the 3 coastal states and BC with no OOC games in neighboring states possible for any of its member teams. In non-football sports, that is a different story as it has schools in Idaho and Montana (as well as Alaska, which neighbors BC now with a conference foe). As of next year, the entire pink part of the map will have just 4 football schools.

    I hear everyone talking about travel, but that trip from LA to Vancouver, BC in conference won't be a day trip either. That is the state of things in the West sadly.

  19. Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by WVIAC-F-EVER View Post
    Is there a map that shows only the 4 Super Regions for football.

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    Default Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmy21 View Post
    Never going to happen but put a cap on amount of schools in a conference? It would lead to scheduling alliances that amount to the same as OOC games but would essentially create a system like the NSIC uses
    Ten is the perfect size. Allows you to play everyone in the conference every year and two non-conference games- one home, one away.

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