Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 39

Thread: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Fennville, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    5,764
    Contribute to D2
    Rep Power
    54148

    Default Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Hillsdale ‘94

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Grand Rapids
    Posts
    1,887
    Rep Power
    58705

    Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    I will believe it when I see it. Like Kle says in the other thread, it'll be a big surprise if this actually turns into some sort of legit penalty or sanction.

    That said, I have stated on these boards since he was hired that at some point Ferris would have to pay a "TA Tax". If you think this is isolated or it's the only/last time something like this will come up, you're kidding yourself.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Quote Originally Posted by Irishlaker View Post
    I will believe it when I see it. Like Kle says in the other thread, it'll be a big surprise if this actually turns into some sort of legit penalty or sanction.

    That said, I have stated on these boards since he was hired that at some point Ferris would have to pay a "TA Tax". If you think this is isolated or it's the only/last time something like this will come up, you're kidding yourself.
    Based on a random perusing of their roster, this isn't the only kid that has transferred between three four year institutions. As long as I have followed TA, he has proven himself unable to develop his own talent - even in high school. He has always heavily utilized transfers.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    19,696
    Rep Power
    821388

    Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    This doesn't look like some accident that slipped past. It looks like they willfully and openly broke the rules here.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Quote Originally Posted by Predatory Primates View Post
    This doesn't look like some accident that slipped past. It looks like they willfully and openly broke the rules here.
    If it's true that other schools told him he would have to sit for 2018 and it took them calling out Ferris when they noticed him playing the first four weeks for them, they absolutely did.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    In the "D"
    Posts
    2,159
    Rep Power
    2048

    Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    There just seems to be so much more transferring of student/athletes now-days that a more stringent review process should be in place. I don't have statistics, but it seemed back in the 70's you had a few D1 kids transfer to D2 schools; now it seems like there are so many transfers at every level and in every sport.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Holland, MI
    Posts
    2,782
    Rep Power
    121722

    Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Quote Originally Posted by MDRussell View Post
    There just seems to be so much more transferring of student/athletes now-days that a more stringent review process should be in place. I don't have statistics, but it seemed back in the 70's you had a few D1 kids transfer to D2 schools; now it seems like there are so many transfers at every level and in every sport.
    This is NOT rocket science...your school needs to have a compliance officer that can read the rules and then have a staff that will enforce them. The 4 4 4 rule is about as clear as it can be...if you want to take a chance on not getting caught thats up to the school and the player..The rules are not that hard..

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    24,718
    Rep Power
    1000000

    Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Quote Originally Posted by MDRussell View Post
    There just seems to be so much more transferring of student/athletes now-days that a more stringent review process should be in place. I don't have statistics, but it seemed back in the 70's you had a few D1 kids transfer to D2 schools; now it seems like there are so many transfers at every level and in every sport.
    its easier to leave than it is to buckle down and work harder in order to see the field

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Coloma, Michigan
    Posts
    2,472
    Rep Power
    24444

    Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Not surprised. I'm sure the NCAA, just like GLIAC game officials, will get this right.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    513
    Rep Power
    55755

    Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Quote Originally Posted by IH8SVSU View Post
    Not surprised. I'm sure the NCAA, just like GLIAC game officials, will get this right.
    If that's the case, playoffs here we come!

  11. Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Quote Originally Posted by champgymusa View Post
    This is NOT rocket science...your school needs to have a compliance officer that can read the rules and then have a staff that will enforce them. The 4 4 4 rule is about as clear as it can be...if you want to take a chance on not getting caught thats up to the school and the player..The rules are not that hard..
    You would think with all the athletes they pull from jail they would have a better compliance team! (Joking....kinda)

  12. Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Quote Originally Posted by BeachinLaker View Post
    Based on a random perusing of their roster, this isn't the only kid that has transferred between three four year institutions. As long as I have followed TA, he has proven himself unable to develop his own talent - even in high school. He has always heavily utilized transfers.
    Come on man. Look I lost to him too when I was playing and coaching, but that just isn't true. I get it that Zimmer, Lampman, Sheldon, VanderLaan where all there when he got there, but they were all young and if coming out of high school they were anything like they were at the end of their Ferris careers then they would have had GV offers, but fine, don't give him credit for them. Just hitting on his Ferris State players that have turned out to be pretty good:

    Tavierre Thomas
    Zach Sieler
    Anthony Darkangelo
    Jevonte Alexander
    Jahaan Brown
    Malik Taylor
    Devon Johnson
    Chris Okoye
    Jake Daugherty
    Marquis Dawsey
    Wyatt Ford
    Nick Huckabay
    KC Zenner
    The following played well this past Saturday:
    Jevon Shaw (The one who threw the trick play pass)
    John Higgins (Picked off the first Pass)
    Austin Edwards
    Sam Heyboer
    Austin Simpson
    Trevor Tank
    Adrian Green
    Avonte Bell
    Cyntell Williams
    Jovan Bayless
    Any kid that has ever played slot at Ferris, undersized yes, good, also yes.
    Sy Barnett isn't a transfer and he just did pretty well as a RS Frosh against the mighty Lakers.

    I could keep going, and yes, he does take transfers, name a D2 in the top 25 who doesn't, but also name a national championship that GVSU won without more than a handful of transfers. You can rip on the dude however you want, and feel however you want, but every D2 coach is trying to snag these type dudes and that is fact.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    15,658
    Rep Power
    1000000

    Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Quote Originally Posted by GLIACWatcher View Post
    Come on man. Look I lost to him too when I was playing and coaching, but that just isn't true. I get it that Zimmer, Lampman, Sheldon, VanderLaan where all there when he got there, but they were all young and if coming out of high school they were anything like they were at the end of their Ferris careers then they would have had GV offers, but fine, don't give him credit for them. Just hitting on his Ferris State players that have turned out to be pretty good:

    Tavierre Thomas
    Zach Sieler
    Anthony Darkangelo
    Jevonte Alexander
    Jahaan Brown
    Malik Taylor
    Devon Johnson
    Chris Okoye
    Jake Daugherty
    Marquis Dawsey
    Wyatt Ford
    Nick Huckabay
    KC Zenner
    The following played well this past Saturday:
    Jevon Shaw (The one who threw the trick play pass)
    John Higgins (Picked off the first Pass)
    Austin Edwards
    Sam Heyboer
    Austin Simpson
    Trevor Tank
    Adrian Green
    Avonte Bell
    Cyntell Williams
    Jovan Bayless
    Any kid that has ever played slot at Ferris, undersized yes, good, also yes.
    Sy Barnett isn't a transfer and he just did pretty well as a RS Frosh against the mighty Lakers.

    I could keep going, and yes, he does take transfers, name a D2 in the top 25 who doesn't, but also name a national championship that GVSU won without more than a handful of transfers. You can rip on the dude however you want, and feel however you want, but every D2 coach is trying to snag these type dudes and that is fact.
    GV only very recently has begun using transfers more liberally. In 2001-2007ish, when GV was winning titles, transfers were pretty rare. Maybe one or two seeing any significant playing time. I mean I guess you can count Cullen Finnerty as a transfer technically, since he came from Toledo, but he never played there. Anyway, just responding to your asking about GV's team make-up during national championships. I'm not as familiar with the 2002 and 2003 teams since I wasn't there, but at least in 2005 and 2006, you had Cullen (technically), and then I guess Derrick Jones was a JuCo transfer, and Aston Martin. So I mean there were 1 or 2, but I don't think there was ever a "handful" of transfers being utilized by GV. This year's team may be the most transfer-heavy team GV has ever used.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Quote Originally Posted by GLIACWatcher View Post
    Come on man. Look I lost to him too when I was playing and coaching, but that just isn't true. I get it that Zimmer, Lampman, Sheldon, VanderLaan where all there when he got there, but they were all young and if coming out of high school they were anything like they were at the end of their Ferris careers then they would have had GV offers, but fine, don't give him credit for them. Just hitting on his Ferris State players that have turned out to be pretty good:

    Tavierre Thomas
    Zach Sieler
    Anthony Darkangelo
    Jevonte Alexander
    Jahaan Brown
    Malik Taylor
    Devon Johnson
    Chris Okoye
    Jake Daugherty
    Marquis Dawsey
    Wyatt Ford
    Nick Huckabay
    KC Zenner
    The following played well this past Saturday:
    Jevon Shaw (The one who threw the trick play pass)
    John Higgins (Picked off the first Pass)
    Austin Edwards
    Sam Heyboer
    Austin Simpson
    Trevor Tank
    Adrian Green
    Avonte Bell
    Cyntell Williams
    Jovan Bayless
    Any kid that has ever played slot at Ferris, undersized yes, good, also yes.
    Sy Barnett isn't a transfer and he just did pretty well as a RS Frosh against the mighty Lakers.

    I could keep going, and yes, he does take transfers, name a D2 in the top 25 who doesn't, but also name a national championship that GVSU won without more than a handful of transfers. You can rip on the dude however you want, and feel however you want, but every D2 coach is trying to snag these type dudes and that is fact.
    TA took advantage of athletically gifted school of choice kids throughout his high school coaching career. Kids that would go to a perfectly fine high school academically that happened to have a lesser football program and then they would randomly show up at Jenison or Muskegon. He went to GRCC and took a transfer at QB that happened to be convicted of aiding in the killing of a man. He went to Ferris and inherited VanderLaan. After VanderLaan, he accepted the transfer of Reggie Bell from EMU and started him. After Bell, he accepted the transfer of another formerly jailed QB from a community college and started him. All of his QBs account for the vast majority of the rushing yards and obviously all of the passing yards. I don't know why any high school QB would choose to play for TA when his track record indicates he is very likely to keep them on the bench in favor of a transfer that shows up in the offseason after the last QB has graduated.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,422
    Rep Power
    10961

    Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Quote Originally Posted by BeachinLaker View Post
    TA took advantage of athletically gifted school of choice kids throughout his high school coaching career. Kids that would go to a perfectly fine high school academically that happened to have a lesser football program and then they would randomly show up at Jenison or Muskegon. He went to GRCC and took a transfer at QB that happened to be convicted of aiding in the killing of a man. He went to Ferris and inherited VanderLaan. After VanderLaan, he accepted the transfer of Reggie Bell from EMU and started him. After Bell, he accepted the transfer of another formerly jailed QB from a community college and started him. All of his QBs account for the vast majority of the rushing yards and obviously all of the passing yards. I don't know why any high school QB would choose to play for TA when his track record indicates he is very likely to keep them on the bench in favor of a transfer that shows up in the offseason after the last QB has graduated.
    As much as I don't like T.A. for many different reasons (I did my student teaching under him), I don't think it's fair to say he can't develop talent. Does he use talent that started out elsewhere? Absolutely, however to think this is the only place that is happening is ridiculous. Even GVSU did have plenty of guys who started elsewhere and transferred to GVSU. Among the ones I recall were Finnerty, Curt Anes' bother who was a full back at Michigan who later left school and finally joined his brother at GVSU. Prior to the national title years we had a QB from EMU who went on to play in the CFL if I recall.

    D2 is where the guys who are getting PT at D1 schools often drop to get PT. I find no fault in any coach at the FCS or DII level who uses transfers in his starting lineup. Your job as coach is to get the best available talent on the field.

    No if we want to talk about T.A.'s liberal use of the transfer rules at the H.S. level. We may have a different discussion, but that's for another time and place.

    Also, in my opinion, T.A. was the reason Ferris won that game, not the players on the field. T.A. flat out outcoached Mitchell in that game.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    513
    Rep Power
    55755

    Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Quote Originally Posted by chapmaja View Post
    As much as I don't like T.A. for many different reasons (I did my student teaching under him), I don't think it's fair to say he can't develop talent. Does he use talent that started out elsewhere? Absolutely, however to think this is the only place that is happening is ridiculous. Even GVSU did have plenty of guys who started elsewhere and transferred to GVSU. Among the ones I recall were Finnerty, Curt Anes' bother who was a full back at Michigan who later left school and finally joined his brother at GVSU. Prior to the national title years we had a QB from EMU who went on to play in the CFL if I recall.

    D2 is where the guys who are getting PT at D1 schools often drop to get PT. I find no fault in any coach at the FCS or DII level who uses transfers in his starting lineup. Your job as coach is to get the best available talent on the field.

    No if we want to talk about T.A.'s liberal use of the transfer rules at the H.S. level. We may have a different discussion, but that's for another time and place.

    Also, in my opinion, T.A. was the reason Ferris won that game, not the players on the field. T.A. flat out outcoached Mitchell in that game.
    Nice to see someone speak reasonably. Let's not forget coaches are in the business to win games and move on to the next big thing. They'll take talent anyway they can get it, unless they're already at a one of the bigger schools. GV had D1 transfers on their team back when I played in the 90's. So did Ashland. Used to be based on the coaches relationships, sending a trouble kid to a smaller school when they flamed out or got in trouble.

    Now these kids are like free agents. I don't blame them, you're window to go pro and make generational wealth is only so big...do what you have to and try to make it, if not hopefully they can do something with the degree they get.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Quote Originally Posted by chapmaja View Post
    As much as I don't like T.A. for many different reasons (I did my student teaching under him), I don't think it's fair to say he can't develop talent. Does he use talent that started out elsewhere? Absolutely, however to think this is the only place that is happening is ridiculous. Even GVSU did have plenty of guys who started elsewhere and transferred to GVSU. Among the ones I recall were Finnerty, Curt Anes' bother who was a full back at Michigan who later left school and finally joined his brother at GVSU. Prior to the national title years we had a QB from EMU who went on to play in the CFL if I recall.

    D2 is where the guys who are getting PT at D1 schools often drop to get PT. I find no fault in any coach at the FCS or DII level who uses transfers in his starting lineup. Your job as coach is to get the best available talent on the field.

    No if we want to talk about T.A.'s liberal use of the transfer rules at the H.S. level. We may have a different discussion, but that's for another time and place.

    Also, in my opinion, T.A. was the reason Ferris won that game, not the players on the field. T.A. flat out outcoached Mitchell in that game.
    I think you're overselling how often GVSU has used transfers. Compared to TA at Ferris, we look like Hillsdale - especially under Mitchell. Like Kle said, this year is an anomaly for us. At QB, only two have been transfers in the last 18 years. Anes, Iciek, Parling, and Williams have all come up through the system. Only Finnerty and McMahon were transfers. At RB, until now only Aston Martin has been a key contributor on the ground until this year with Moss. Berezik, Sherrod, Robinson, Jackson, Ratay, Spencer, Carter, etc. were all organic. Save for the occasional WR, most of our biggest yardage gainers have come up through the system.

    Also, you're not the first former student teacher under TA that has told me they developed a distaste for him after teaching with him.

  18. Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Quote Originally Posted by DawgUp View Post
    Nice to see someone speak reasonably. Let's not forget coaches are in the business to win games and move on to the next big thing. They'll take talent anyway they can get it, unless they're already at a one of the bigger schools. GV had D1 transfers on their team back when I played in the 90's. So did Ashland. Used to be based on the coaches relationships, sending a trouble kid to a smaller school when they flamed out or got in trouble.

    Now these kids are like free agents. I don't blame them, you're window to go pro and make generational wealth is only so big...do what you have to and try to make it, if not hopefully they can do something with the degree they get.
    It appears the athlete in question only played in 3 of the 4 games he suited up for. I went on the Ferris website to see how many minutes this player actually played in each game but the box score does not indicate the amount of time played. While I am a GV fan I do not want to see a conference title won by what may be a legitimate oversight by a compliance officer if there is one at Ferris. TA's problem is going to be if he has had issues with NCAA before, the amount of time this kid played in the games and how was the infraction discovered and reported. If there is not a compliance officer at Ferris this could also play into the issue. What would be unfortunate is if the NCAA drags its feet in investigating this and then just before playoffs rules that Ferris should forfeit the games the athlete played in. I also agree that TA has out coached MM in almost every game they coached against each other. As for the number of D1 transfers that have played at GV there are more than some people on this thread think and some of those have contributed to the 4 national titles GV has won.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Northville, MI (after over 35 yrs in Midland, MI)
    Posts
    6,998
    Rep Power
    88198

    Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Quote Originally Posted by Irish1916 View Post
    It appears the athlete in question only played in 3 of the 4 games he suited up for. I went on the Ferris website to see how many minutes this player actually played in each game but the box score does not indicate the amount of time played. While I am a GV fan I do not want to see a conference title won by what may be a legitimate oversight by a compliance officer if there is one at Ferris. TA's problem is going to be if he has had issues with NCAA before, the amount of time this kid played in the games and how was the infraction discovered and reported. If there is not a compliance officer at Ferris this could also play into the issue. What would be unfortunate is if the NCAA drags its feet in investigating this and then just before playoffs rules that Ferris should forfeit the games the athlete played in. I also agree that TA has out coached MM in almost every game they coached against each other. As for the number of D1 transfers that have played at GV there are more than some people on this thread think and some of those have contributed to the 4 national titles GV has won.
    As I asked on the other thread, how was it discovered? I mean, it seems a bit odd that 4 games in, someone just thought, hmm, maybe this kid isn't eligible? Something isn't adding up.. especially since it sounded like the student was told from elsewhere that he would need to sit a year (at least I thought that is the case.) No matter, FSU stated that it's a complicated issue. So if it's complicated, wouldn't one run it by the conference or NCAA? I mean why risk a non-compliance unless one is trying to keep the signing quiet for some reason?

    And I also don't understand how Ferris is requesting the student to be reinstated. Is that to allow him to have the clock running now so that he can play next season? Surely, they aren't asking permission for him to play this season.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Northville, MI (after over 35 yrs in Midland, MI)
    Posts
    6,998
    Rep Power
    88198

    Default Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

    Quote Originally Posted by chapmaja View Post
    As much as I don't like T.A. for many different reasons (I did my student teaching under him), I don't think it's fair to say he can't develop talent. Does he use talent that started out elsewhere? Absolutely, however to think this is the only place that is happening is ridiculous. Even GVSU did have plenty of guys who started elsewhere and transferred to GVSU. Among the ones I recall were Finnerty, Curt Anes' bother who was a full back at Michigan who later left school and finally joined his brother at GVSU. Prior to the national title years we had a QB from EMU who went on to play in the CFL if I recall.

    D2 is where the guys who are getting PT at D1 schools often drop to get PT. I find no fault in any coach at the FCS or DII level who uses transfers in his starting lineup. Your job as coach is to get the best available talent on the field.

    No if we want to talk about T.A.'s liberal use of the transfer rules at the H.S. level. We may have a different discussion, but that's for another time and place.

    Also, in my opinion, T.A. was the reason Ferris won that game, not the players on the field. T.A. flat out outcoached Mitchell in that game.
    Not the players on the field? Come on dude. I'm as big of fan as any, and I guarantee you those picks rest on Williams' arm. And there are a handful of other plays where the GV player admits they messed up. They were coached, but for some reason didn't do the deed. That wasn't on Mitchell. Sure everything comes up to the coach, I get that, but flat outcoached? Whatever. And if that fake FG attempt would have been successful would you still claim TA flat outcoached MM? It yes, no need to answer. I surrender.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •