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Thread: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

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    Default School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    Wilson West Lawn in Berks county asking to separate the two entities in the post season.

    https://www.readingeagle.com/sports/article/wilson-board-adopts-resolution-asking-piaa-to-separate-public-private-schools

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    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    I hope Wilson has a great big target on its back if it thinks it's going to dominate public-only competition.

  3. #3

    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    Wilson isn't even the best team in its own league this year. And it plays in a section of the Lancaster-Lebanon League that has zero private/charter schools in it.
    Last edited by Dozsa2; 10-18-2018 at 10:49 PM.

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    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    Quote Originally Posted by Dozsa2 View Post
    Wilson isn't even the best team in its own league this year. And it plays in a section of the Lancaster-Lebanon League that has zero private/charter schools in it haha.
    Yes but are they losing kids to the private/charter schools?

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    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    I'm sure they are. And I'm just as sure the blade swings the other way, too.

  6. #6

    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    Yes but are they losing kids to the private/charter schools?
    Lost their starting running back to Berks Catholic before the season.

  7. #7

    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    I'm actually fine with them splitting public and private/charter for playoffs. Its been a hot topic for years and it seems to only be getting worse. I'm kind of ready to put the topic to bed. Let public and privates play each other during the regular season and then split them for playoffs. Obviously, if you would do that, you would probably need to consolidate some of the classes - as you wouldn't want 2 sets of 6 classes (12 state champs?)

    I've seen both sides of this. I went to a PA public; my kids went to public in PA, but now private in FL. After being on the private side for awhile now, you do see just how much recruiting goes on (and by recruiting, I also include the kids who moved on their parents dime for a better football situation). At the end of each football season, I think "wow, that was a great senior class - we are losing a lot of talent and are probably going to take a big step back next year". Then next year rolls around and the positions I thought we were going to be weak at are filled by new students.

    I totally get how a "boundary" school feels disadvantaged. There are less and less football players in general these days, and when you are blessed with a good player inside your boundary - there is always a private school looking to snatch him up and add to their collection. Its always been a thing, but it seems to be getting worse lately. Maybe the decline in overall football participation is making the situation worse/more-obvious/more-impactful than it was before. Not sure.

    BTW - The public/private issue isn't as big of a deal down here. Almost all of the public schools are big (we have county-wide school districts) and the private schools tend to be smaller - so the two groups are kind of naturally classified differently already. There is some overlap, but not near as much as in PA. In PA, you have some pretty small public schools and some pretty big private schools, so there is much more overlap. Plus, you have privates that "play up" a division - further increasing the overlap.

    I say split it up. The publics live by the traditional boundary rules. The privates can live in the "wild west".
    Last edited by BlueBlood; 10-19-2018 at 09:05 AM.

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    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    This is not really about the local impact to Wilson, rather it is a broader view.

    Two or three seasons ago they got matched up in the State Semi's against North Catholic from Pittsburgh and it was not a pretty scene. That is what put Wilson where they are today, taking a stand and saying it is not a level playing field.

    I has nothing to do with Berks Catholic or the Lancaster Lebanon league. TBH Wilson probably gets more kids to transfer into Wilson than they lose to Berks Catholic who plays at a much lower level than Wilson does.

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    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenRam94 View Post
    This is not really about the local impact to Wilson, rather it is a broader view.

    Two or three seasons ago they got matched up in the State Semi's against North Catholic from Pittsburgh and it was not a pretty scene. That is what put Wilson where they are today, taking a stand and saying it is not a level playing field.

    I has nothing to do with Berks Catholic or the Lancaster Lebanon league. TBH Wilson probably gets more kids to transfer into Wilson than they lose to Berks Catholic who plays at a much lower level than Wilson does.
    Exactly.

  10. #10

    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    I think the public/private discussion is warranted but in the case of Wilson West Lawn I seem to recall them also recruiting or so I heard back in my Berks County days. Of the 3 notable football alumni Kerry Collins, Chad Henne, and John Gilmore were they actually "from" within the district boundaries? Anybody know? Golden Ram?

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    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    I know Kerry Collins came over from Lebanon.

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    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    Yeah, I was surprised that Wilson has become the posterboy for this movement. I would have more-expected a smaller public school with lots of private school overlap (and yes, less history of importing talent themselves).

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    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    Just looked it up. John Gilmore transferred in to Wilson from Holy Name. Henne started at Wilson as a freshman. So two of their three big-timers were transfers.

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    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    Maybe the PIAA should do something like the Premier League. The top programs play in higher classifications regardless of enrollment. I mean if a school has 200 boys and 20 of them are D1 foosball recruits...maybe they should play in the top classification against a schools with 600 boys and who also fields a top program.

    Then you can have all the bottom feeders face off and all the whining can stop.

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    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    Quote Originally Posted by jrshooter View Post
    I know Kerry Collins came over from Lebanon.
    Each year there are kids who 'move' into the district.

    Had a kid a few years ago move from Hamburg to Wilson, he ended up at the U of Albany.

    That is a bit different though than what we are seeing in some of the big private programs.

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    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    Well, it sorta depends on how you're looking at it.

    In essence, every kid at a private school is coming there from a public school district. They could have enrolled in St. Patrick's at age 5, they still reside in a public school district. So are the "unfair" transfers those that happen upon entrance into ninth grade? Seventh? 11th?

    I still say if Wilson wants to fly that flag, it had better have a damn impeccable history when it comes to athletic-based transfers.
    Last edited by jrshooter; 10-20-2018 at 11:27 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    When I was in high school, Erie Cathedral Prep and Bethlehem Catholic both 'played up' to AAAA. While I don't really care either way what happens with this (I'm more of a college football fan), imagine the top 'non-boundary' class if those schools are divided to big school and small school for their own playoffs:

    Erie Cathedral Prep
    Pittsburgh Central Catholic
    Imhotep
    Bishop McDevitt
    Berks Catholic
    Bethlehem Catholic
    St. Joseph's Prep
    LaSalle
    Archbishop Wood

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    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA


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    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    I'm not sure this is the best solution. Once we go back to separate playoff brackets we'll still have that debate about "Who is better?"

    Nobody and I mean NOBODY can cite how one of the 49 other states handles this better than PA. The PIAA should (or pay someone to) study how this is handled elsewhere and propose 2-3 options. Without doing any work, I'd say the options are a) separate playoffs, b) make privates play up one level, or c) limit participants to a radius around the school.

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    Default Re: School District Votes to Separate Private from Public in PIAA

    My thought has always been to give every non-boundary school a multiplier to multiply their enrollment by to get an enrollment number to use for classification (e.g. 1.3).

    A random thought I just had was to give extra points to teams that meet certain thresholds in the state playoffs. For example, say a private school wins the state title, they get something like 0.4 added to their enrollment multiplier, thus increasing their classification number. Second place could get 0.3, semifinalists get 0.2, quarterfinalists get 0.1. And then after each year a team doesn't make the state playoffs, they are reduced by 0.1, with a minimum of that 1.3 baseline multiplier.

    Essentially what this would do would be a) account for the non-boundary issue, and b) self-correct for competitive balance in the case of teams that are still dominant. So for example, if Cathedral Prep goes deep in the playoffs enough years in a row, they eventually are forced up to 5A and later 6A. No idea if anyone would agree to this but it's fun to think about!

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