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Thread: Thoughts on Conference to date

  1. #21

    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    I thought of this the other day - it will be interesting to see how many circa 2012 GLIAC football schools make the 2018 playoffs. Remember, In addition to the current GLIAC and G-MAC schools, NDC and UIndy played in the GLIAC as well.

  2. Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBlood View Post
    I thought of this the other day - it will be interesting to see how many circa 2012 GLIAC football schools make the 2018 playoffs. Remember, In addition to the current GLIAC and G-MAC schools, NDC and UIndy played in the GLIAC as well.
    Obviously one of the biggest issues for the schools that have left the GLIAC was the travel. The other issue that the GLIAC has IMO, is the disparity in competition and resources. When you have multiple state funded universities competing against small private colleges, you will have quite a disparity. That’s not to say that private schools cannot consistently compete well in that conference; Ashland has done very well over the past decade or so, ODU did well while they were in the conference, and then you had years where different schools were towards the top of the standings. I just feel that, unless it’s convenient from a travel standpoint, the GLIAC will find it tough to maintain some of these small private universities/colleges.

  3. Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBlood View Post
    This was posted on the "Best Conferences" thread, but I think it also applies to our discussion. Boyblue uses math/rankings to break down the relative strength of the various D2 football conferences. Obviously, many of our teams just moved from conference #2 down a bit. But again, I'm actually pretty impressed at where the G-MAC stands compared to what the nay-sayers were predicting. Also, I have no idea if Ashland or NDC will ever join, but adding either or both would push the G-MAC further up this list.
    I saw his ranking in the other thread and had the same thought. I was surprise how high he has the GMAC ranked and also a little surprised that our current conference is listed as the weakest conference. And that's before the MEC loses Shepherd next year.

    Both Ashland and NDC would certainly help the GMAC climb even higher.

    It will be interesting to see what admin does. I do think NDC moves to the GMAC at some point.

  4. Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBlood View Post
    I thought of this the other day - it will be interesting to see how many circa 2012 GLIAC football schools make the 2018 playoffs. Remember, In addition to the current GLIAC and G-MAC schools, NDC and UIndy played in the GLIAC as well.
    I'd say somewhere between 4 to 7 teams.

    Math - 2 or 3 from the GLIAC, 1 or 2 from the GMAC, 1 or 2 between NDC and Indy. Its entirely possible that 6 or 7 current and former GLIAC teams make the playoffs.

  5. Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by OhioD2 View Post
    On another thread I posted that shortly, I think this will happen: Ash, UIndy join, KyWes drops to playing Independent football, i.e. the NAIA in the area plus AB, some GLVC schools

    1) Ashland
    2) UIndy
    3) Hillsdale
    4) Findlay
    5) Tiffin
    6) ODU
    7) NDC
    8) LEC
    9) Walsh
    10) Malone
    Has Kentucky Wesleyan given any indication that they are considering dropping out? If you need one more to round it out - Urbana. I know they aren't the strongest program, but they are nicely inside the footprint. And if you are adding stronger programs Ashland, Indy and NDC, you can afford to add Urbana.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by Stea1th View Post
    I saw his ranking in the other thread and had the same thought. I was surprise how high he has the GMAC ranked and also a little surprised that our current conference is listed as the weakest conference. And that's before the MEC loses Shepherd next year.
    Not only does the MEC lose Shepherd next year.......they add a start up program in Wheeling Jesuit which will drop this down further. You also add in the fact that Frostburg has to transition from D3 to D2 which won't be quite as easy cake as the MEC posters make it out to be. Frostburg is a good addition, but it will take some transition time.

    I am not surprised they are the lowest.

  7. Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by Stea1th View Post
    Has Kentucky Wesleyan given any indication that they are considering dropping out?
    No. Hearing some conjecture


    Quote Originally Posted by Stea1th View Post
    If you need one more to round it out - Urbana. I know they aren't the strongest program, but they are nicely inside the footprint.
    Disagree. Will it even be a school 5 years from now let alone a football program?

  8. Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    a lot of talk about NDC being so good and making the conference stronger.... outside of this year have they ever been good or ranked? i dont recall.

    2012 = 3-8 GLIAC
    2013 = 5-6 IND
    2014 = 7-4 MEC
    2015 = 5-6 MEC
    2016 =9-2 MEC
    2017 = 8-3 MEC
    2018 = 7-0 MEC

    last couple of years have been good, but in a weaker conference. this year they have not really beat anyone 'good' except Shepard who was #16 by 2 points and shepard is 4-2 in a a weak MEC. yes i do think it would improve the GMAC after looking further

  9. #29

    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    I moved this from the Pick'em thread, as it's more of a global discussion. It's about LEC, but the same issues apply to several G-MAC schools and really all small private schools in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by LECfan View Post
    The campus rumor is that if football is not at .500 within two seasons, it's done.
    That gets tricky for a small school. Even if the team isn't competitive, there may be a reason to keep it going.

    Per the Dept. of Education, LEC has 723 undergrad students. 133 of those are football players. Losing football drops undergrad enrollment under 600 - and that's not counting the potential loss of peripheral students (cheerleaders, band, sports medicine, kids who want to go to a school that has football). I don't think its a stretch to say that a football-less LEC would potentially have around 500 students.

    BTW - per DOE, 408 of LEC's 723 students are athletes.

    America's obsession with sports is helping keep the doors open at a lot small private schools.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    BTW - I've mentioned before that my daughters play HS soccer. My oldest is a senior. So, I'm seeing what I talked about above up close. The girls have several teammates that are entertaining offers from small private schools (NAIA on up) and/or are waiting for schools to offer them They will consider almost any school that is interested. These are schools that their friends would not consider going to - except for the opportunity to extend their soccer "career". In most cases, they are getting or expecting no additional money than a non-athlete could secure at the same school. This is the lifeblood of small private schools. I fear that if the sports craze ever dies, so do a lot of schools.

  11. Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by HeftyLefty View Post
    a lot of talk about NDC being so good and making the conference stronger.... outside of this year have they ever been good or ranked? i dont recall.

    2012 = 3-8 GLIAC
    2013 = 5-6 IND
    2014 = 7-4 MEC
    2015 = 5-6 MEC
    2016 =9-2 MEC
    2017 = 8-3 MEC
    2018 = 7-0 MEC

    last couple of years have been good, but in a weaker conference. this year they have not really beat anyone 'good' except Shepard who was #16 by 2 points and shepard is 4-2 in a a weak MEC. yes i do think it would improve the GMAC after looking further
    Glad I followed you all the way to the ending.

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    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by Stea1th View Post
    Has Kentucky Wesleyan given any indication that they are considering dropping out? If you need one more to round it out - Urbana. I know they aren't the strongest program, but they are nicely inside the footprint. And if you are adding stronger programs Ashland, Indy and NDC, you can afford to add Urbana.
    Kentucky Wesleyan is a charter member of the G-MAC. They will stay and eventually they will need to win more games, but they are not leaving the G=MAC, there is no place for them to go. KWC has already won conference championships.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    There are no cheerleaders, no band, and the other students either don't care about football or resent the football players because of the perception that they are treated better than the other athletes. D3 might be the best solution, as it would eliminate the effect scholarships have on tuition paid, while those who want to play football or any other sport still would be able to do so.

  14. Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by alumnifan View Post
    Kentucky Wesleyan is a charter member of the G-MAC. They will stay and eventually they will need to win more games, but they are not leaving the G=MAC, there is no place for them to go. KWC has already won conference championships.
    My post is football only.

  15. Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by LECfan View Post
    There are no cheerleaders, no band, and the other students either don't care about football or resent the football players because of the perception that they are treated better than the other athletes. D3 might be the best solution, as it would eliminate the effect scholarships have on tuition paid, while those who want to play football or any other sport still would be able to do so.
    Hard to play D3 independent. I can't see either OAC or NCAC (or Presidents) accepting LEC.

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    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by HeftyLefty View Post
    a lot of talk about NDC being so good and making the conference stronger.... outside of this year have they ever been good or ranked? i dont recall.

    2012 = 3-8 GLIAC
    2013 = 5-6 IND
    2014 = 7-4 MEC
    2015 = 5-6 MEC
    2016 =9-2 MEC
    2017 = 8-3 MEC
    2018 = 7-0 MEC

    last couple of years have been good, but in a weaker conference. this year they have not really beat anyone 'good' except Shepard who was #16 by 2 points and shepard is 4-2 in a a weak MEC. yes i do think it would improve the GMAC after looking further
    notre dame won 2 games in the gliac and they were against walsh and malone

  17. #37

    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by LECfan View Post
    There are no cheerleaders, no band, and the other students either don't care about football or resent the football players because of the perception that they are treated better than the other athletes. D3 might be the best solution, as it would eliminate the effect scholarships have on tuition paid, while those who want to play football or any other sport still would be able to do so.
    Honestly, I don't think the football finances for a D2 small private school are much different than the D3 model anyway. Lake Erie reported to the DOE that total expenses for the football team are $1.4M. Even if $1M of that is scholarships, that is only an average $7500 discount per player (spread over 133 players). Considering LEC's total sticker price (tuition, room, board, etc) is around $41K, LEC is still making money on the football players despite expenses. We all know that D3s find creative ways to get kids money. I think D2 just allows a more straight forward way to offer it.

    There have been a lot of articles written the past several years about the economic benefit for smaller schools to add football. On average, it adds 80 to 150 students who pay reduced (but not necessarily dramatically) tuition. I'm not saying that LEC won't cut the program, but it would be bucking a trend. It would certainly reduce enrollment and would almost certainly take away more $ than it would save.

    BTW - the AB guys can probably shed some light on this. AB added football (and other sports) after a study was completed that showed positive enrollment and revenue projections.

    ---

    Edit. Here is an example of one article that I quickly found. There are a lot out there.

    "When Hendrix College in Arkansas restarted football in 2013 after a 53-year hiatus (with the slogan “unbeaten since 1960”), it received coverage and national publicity from websites such as Deadspin and SB Nation. They reported that even with the cost of equipment and insurance added from having a football team, football provided an influx of nearly $2 million in tuition dollars."

    https://www.insidehighered.com/admis...more-important
    Last edited by BlueBlood; 11-06-2018 at 07:44 AM.

  18. Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    NDC took the same route you describe. Two things saved NDC from extinction, allowing men to enroll in 2001 and adding sports. Football was added in 2010. Numerous other sports were added around that time too. It greatly increased enrollment and makes for a more vibrant campus. I think NDC currently has approximately 600 student athletes on campus, approximately 1/3 of total enrollment. Student Athletes make up the majority of residential students. Quite a few MEC and GMAC schools are constructed similarly.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    My thoughts on the conference are, I like the GMAC.
    Last edited by crixus; 11-10-2018 at 07:10 PM.
    Go Battlers!

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by crixus View Post
    My thoughts on the conference are, I like the GMAC.
    I am excited about the league moving forward.
    Hillsdale ‘94

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