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Thread: Thoughts on Conference to date

  1. #1

    Default Thoughts on Conference to date

    I saw wscsuperfan's Conference Standings post and it (probably in combo with Findlay's out of conference win this week) got me thinking a bit. I think I've been pleasantly surprised by the overall composition and competitiveness of the conference. From a composition standpoint, there is clearly a top 4, which assures you 3 in-conference games where the top teams line up against a perceived equal. There are a couple middle teams that will give the top teams a game and if you are having a bad day may beat you. Then, there are admittedly a few games that should be absolute walk-throughs. I will always argue that a game or two like that isn't bad. It helps you rest some players, and get some others action. Now, I'm not D2 playoff-points savvy, so I'm not sure how much those gimme games hurt the conference's chances of getting a second playoff team in. I won't be surprised if some of you guys tell me that the bad is a little too (or possibly way too) bad and creates a playoff problem. If it is, is it something that a good out-of-conference schedule can fix, or not? If not, how big of a step up do the middle and lower teams need to take to not hinder the top teams? From a competitive standpoint, there have been some nice out-of-conference wins. Admittedly, the nice wins have mostly come from the top 4 (and I know AB had a nice win over an MEC opponent also)

    I'm interested in others thoughts about the G-MAC experience to date. Pleasantly surprised?, or just the opposite?


    ----

    the current standings:

    GMAC
    1. Hillsdale (6-1, 5-0)
    2. Tiffin (7-0, 4-0)
    3. Ohio Dominican (6-1, 4-1)
    4. Findlay (4-3, 2-2)
    4. Walsh (2-4, 2-2)
    6. Alderson-Broaddus (2-5, 1-3)
    6. Kentucky Wesleyan (2-4, 1-3)
    8. Malone (1-5, 1-4)
    9. Lake Erie (0-7, 0-5)

  2. Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Tiffin being undefeated is nice, but they have not dominated the weaker competition they have played, now they play the other 3 top teams.
    Hillsdale only has Tiffin left, but has an interesting end of year against UIndy, which we determine playoff seeding if they beat Tiffin.
    Decent chance this "second" year of football in the conference might get 2 in post season.

  3. Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    nice post

    OHIOD2 - dont forget Hillsdale has tiffin, but also the last game of the year is a ranked UIndy. thats a need to win out of conference game, since they already lost one non conference game.
    ODU has one conference loss, but 2 non conference wins against competitive PSAC & GLIAC teams, Ashland & Cal (who knocked off IUP)
    I am surprised by the standings thus far, figured Findlay would be the team to beat, not Hillsdale or Tiffin, so yes it is a nice surprise to see the conference getting stronger. Also as mentioned above dont sleep on teams like Walsh, even AB saw glimpses of hope, just dont have hte depth the roster needs.

    Toughest Games left on the Schedule & SR1 playoff predictions:
    Hillsdale - tiffin & Uindy, if they outright win the GMAC they will get in even if they lose to Uindy
    Tiffin - ODU, Hillsdale, Findlay loaded upcoming weeks for this team, we will see if the Dragons can hold it together, so far they've been rolling and its nice to see, they determine their own fate getting in
    ODU - tiffin, this is the only team left on the schedule that will give them a problem, balance of games is East STroudsburg, KW, Lake Erie, if ODU wins the rest of the schedule i believe they get in, that would make them 10-1, only loss to hillsdale, that was a bad game for them, offense is much more in sync now, need to stay healthy,
    FIndlay - Tiffin, unlikely htey get in being a 3 loss team with the PSAC so strong

    i'm not up to par on commenting who gets in the for the rest of the region. the GMAC will get 1 team in for sure, and maybe 1 loss team. i dont see 3 teams getting in.

    other thoughts?

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    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    There's always a debate as to whether it's better to get 2 teams from the same conference in the playoffs, or get 1 in a high seed for home games and easier opponents. At this point, Tiffin would certainly seem to be a mirage and if they topple Ohio Dominican, Hillsdale and Findlay, they will certainly have earned a high seed. More likely, their winning record will boost Hillsdale's and Ohio Dominican's schedule strength.

    Here's an interesting and quite possible scenario - Ohio Dominican wins out and finishes 10-1 with their loss coming to Hillsdale while Hillsdale falls to UIndy in the final week of the regular season finishing 9-2, but defeating Ohio Dominican. Where do Hillsdale and Ohio Dominican land in the rankings in relation to each other?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    I just remember that when the OH GLIAC schools (+ HC) announced their move, a decent number of folks were saying that this was going to be an absolutely horrible football conference. I don't think that this has been near the hot mess some folks were predicting.

    A couple of extra thoughts:

    NDC is currently undefeated and leading the MEC. They are peaking at a good time for possible G-MAC consideration (as has been rumored).

    Ashland said they were going to wait two years and reevaluate. I'm no AD, but I'm guessing that the G-MAC FB situation looks better now than it did on paper a few months ago. I know there are a lot of other considerations there, but I do think the current G-MAC football situation might not be quite as big of a hinderance as was perceived earlier.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by HeftyLefty View Post
    i'm not up to par on commenting who gets in the for the rest of the region. the GMAC will get 1 team in for sure, and maybe 1 loss team. i dont see 3 teams getting in.

    other thoughts?
    Still a ton of football left but some intriguing scenarios over the final month of the season. I will lay it out in another thread.
    Hillsdale ‘94

  7. Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBlood View Post
    I just remember that when the OH GLIAC schools (+ HC) announced their move, a decent number of folks were saying that this was going to be an absolutely horrible football conference. I don't think that this has been near the hot mess some folks were predicting.

    A couple of extra thoughts:

    NDC is currently undefeated and leading the MEC. They are peaking at a good time for possible G-MAC consideration (as has been rumored).

    Ashland said they were going to wait two years and reevaluate. I'm no AD, but I'm guessing that the G-MAC FB situation looks better now than it did on paper a few months ago. I know there are a lot of other considerations there, but I do think the current G-MAC football situation might not be quite as big of a hinderance as was perceived earlier.
    someone correct me if i'm wrong i thought NDC WAS going to join the GMAC and then didn't? where did i get that from. anyway, i believe Ashland will eventually join... one of the reasons the other OH schools joined was budget and time out of class. these kids were driving up to the UP to play Tech leaving on a wed/thurs to play on a saturday too expensive and too much time away from class. i would think/hope Ashland would follow suit.
    Also i heard a rumor that UINDY would think about joining the GMAC as well. which would practically make the GMAC as strong as the GLIAC. lets face it the GLIAC is starting to have bottom feeders as well, not everyone is a top tier team anymore... as of late Wayne State, Northern, Mich Tech

  8. #8

    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by HeftyLefty View Post
    someone correct me if i'm wrong i thought NDC WAS going to join the GMAC and then didn't? where did i get that from.
    They were originally announced as one of the founding schools that was creating a new conference (prior to the G-MAC having a name). They were still on board when KWC announced that they were joining, but quietly abandoned ship sometime soon thereafter. By the time TNU announced it was joining, NDC was not listed as an involved school.

    At the time, they were an associate member of the GLIAC in football (and a few other sports) and the rumor was that they thought they would be invited for full membership (which they were not).

  9. #9

    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by HeftyLefty View Post
    Also i heard a rumor that UINDY would think about joining the GMAC as well.
    I have heard speculation, but no rumors. They have historical ties to both Hillsdale and Ashland. IF Ashland comes, you would think that they at least need to consider it.

  10. Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    The GMAC has been represented well overall this year. The future of this conference will depend on recruiting. Will these borderline D1/2 kids choose to go to a GMAC school, or go to the GLIAC/PSAC? I'm not sure what Malone's/Walsh's facilities are like, but they obviously have an amazing stadium to play in. Hillsdale has a new facility, and ODU's is only a few years old. I feel that my alma mater needs to figure out a better stadium situation; not only are you playing in a high school stadium, it is not really close to the campus. I know that there was discussion on building their own stadium near where one of our practice fields were at, but that does not seem to be the case anymore.

    As far as the rest of this season goes, we will wait to see about Tiffin. Obviously, if they can make it through the last part of their schedule with only one loss, they will be a playoff team. That will leave either ODU or Hillsdale as a possible second team to represent the GMAC. The NE-10 and PSAC also have multiple teams with 1 loss or less, therefore, it's tough to say whether or not the GMAC will get two or not. Either way, I think that the GMAC can represent well in the playoffs for a second year in a row. That would go a long way in earning additional respect in D2. You do not want your conference representative(s) going in to the playoffs and getting smoked in the first round, which I would not see happening.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by oilerftbll View Post
    The GMAC has been represented well overall this year. The future of this conference will depend on recruiting. Will these borderline D1/2 kids choose to go to a GMAC school, or go to the GLIAC/PSAC?
    Funny enough, when I started this thread, I looked at a few GLIAC rosters - essentially, I wanted to know if they were stacked with OH kids or not - and wondered if the OH schools leaving may eventually stymie that pipeline. I was actually surprised at how few OH kids were on the GLIAC rosters that I checked. I don't know if that dramatically changed in the last 2-3 years or not. Maybe what I thought might eventually happen already happened, or maybe there was never a disproportionate amount of OH kids up north. The numbers were certainly lower than I expected given OH's notoriety as fertile recruiting grounds. I didn't actually count, but there seemed to be far more kids from IN than OH (which maybe makes sense given that UIndy is the only D2 in IN).
    Last edited by BlueBlood; 10-15-2018 at 01:32 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    A very similar scenario occurred last year when ODU went undefeated in the conference and beat Findlay by 2 plus TDs and Findlay made the playoffs and ODU was at home at 7-2.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBlood View Post
    Funny enough, when I started this thread, I looked at a few GLIAC rosters - essentially, I wanted to know if they were stacked with OH kids or not - and wondered if the OH schools leaving may eventually stymie that pipeline. I was actually surprised at how few OH kids were on the GLIAC rosters that I checked. I don't know if that dramatically changed in the last 2-3 years or not. Maybe what I thought might eventually happen already happened, or maybe there was never a disproportionate amount of OH kids up north. The numbers were certainly lower than I expected given OH's notoriety as fertile recruiting grounds. I didn't actually count, but there seemed to be far more kids from IN than OH (which maybe makes sense given that UIndy is the only D2 in IN).
    Hillsdale has been heavily invested in Ohio for decades. Obviously there is great talent but when Dick Lowry and Dave Dye were running the show in the 80's and early 90's they were well connected to Cleveland area coaches. Both had spent a long time coaching high school football in the suburbs before joining the college ranks.
    Hillsdale ‘94

  14. #14

    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by oilerftbll View Post
    The GMAC has been represented well overall this year. The future of this conference will depend on recruiting. Will these borderline D1/2 kids choose to go to a GMAC school, or go to the GLIAC/PSAC? I'm not sure what Malone's/Walsh's facilities are like, but they obviously have an amazing stadium to play in. Hillsdale has a new facility, and ODU's is only a few years old. I feel that my alma mater needs to figure out a better stadium situation; not only are you playing in a high school stadium, it is not really close to the campus. I know that there was discussion on building their own stadium near where one of our practice fields were at, but that does not seem to be the case anymore.

    As far as the rest of this season goes, we will wait to see about Tiffin. Obviously, if they can make it through the last part of their schedule with only one loss, they will be a playoff team. That will leave either ODU or Hillsdale as a possible second team to represent the GMAC. The NE-10 and PSAC also have multiple teams with 1 loss or less, therefore, it's tough to say whether or not the GMAC will get two or not. Either way, I think that the GMAC can represent well in the playoffs for a second year in a row. That would go a long way in earning additional respect in D2. You do not want your conference representative(s) going in to the playoffs and getting smoked in the first round, which I would not see happening.
    Findlay really needs to make a huge effort to get the on campus stadium built. I know that coaches from other schools have asked recruits why they would want to play in a high school stadium. They already own the land but I haven't heard of anyone trying to raise money for a stadium. As for the G-MAC, I love the league and it's a great fit for Findlay.

  15. Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by UFOILERFAN View Post
    Findlay really needs to make a huge effort to get the on campus stadium built. I know that coaches from other schools have asked recruits why they would want to play in a high school stadium. They already own the land but I haven't heard of anyone trying to raise money for a stadium.
    It was planned (sketches can be found) and ready to start, but the largest donor of the project went thru a divorce and the planned donation was pulled.

  16. Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    On another thread I posted that shortly, I think this will happen: Ash, UIndy join, KyWes drops to playing Independent football, i.e. the NAIA in the area plus AB, some GLVC schools

    1) Ashland
    2) UIndy
    3) Hillsdale
    4) Findlay
    5) Tiffin
    6) ODU
    7) NDC
    8) LEC
    9) Walsh
    10) Malone

  17. #17

    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Great thread!

    Regarding on-campus football facilities- when AU lined up the big money to put a stadium on-campus, IMHO the program went up a notch and certainly the game-day experience for AU fans, players, and their opponents was greatly improved over the old Ashland Community Stadium. The Community Stadium was very nice; had great new turf and good seating; but the locker facilities were antiquated (AU dressed over at the baseball field and bussed over) and it was still "a high school field." The entire football complex is now amazing - super weight training facility, pro-style lockers, modern team meeting rooms, fabulous (and I mean Fabulous with a capital "F") alumni and football club hosting rooms - they overlook the field! I try to go anytime I get the chance, just to get in the Troop Center.

    Definitely UF will take a step up when they are able to get their own field closer to the campus and get rid of the drop-off in the northern endzone and the wrought-iron fencing that is like 5 feet (yes, I am exaggerating for effect) from the sideline where I have seen many a player get knocked into (and I've probably only seen about 10 or so games at Donnel field). There is some big money in Findlay; hopefully $10-15M or so could find its way over to the UF football program soon.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by Falconfan View Post
    Great thread!

    Regarding on-campus football facilities- when AU lined up the big money to put a stadium on-campus, IMHO the program went up a notch and certainly the game-day experience for AU fans, players, and their opponents was greatly improved over the old Ashland Community Stadium. The Community Stadium was very nice; had great new turf and good seating; but the locker facilities were antiquated (AU dressed over at the baseball field and bussed over) and it was still "a high school field." The entire football complex is now amazing - super weight training facility, pro-style lockers, modern team meeting rooms, fabulous (and I mean Fabulous with a capital "F") alumni and football club hosting rooms - they overlook the field! I try to go anytime I get the chance, just to get in the Troop Center.

    Definitely UF will take a step up when they are able to get their own field closer to the campus and get rid of the drop-off in the northern endzone and the wrought-iron fencing that is like 5 feet (yes, I am exaggerating for effect) from the sideline where I have seen many a player get knocked into (and I've probably only seen about 10 or so games at Donnel field). There is some big money in Findlay; hopefully $10-15M or so could find its way over to the UF football program soon.
    That's all I'm saying. Just because one donor fell through they shouldn't stop trying. I know Ashland's stadium has been a great asset to their program.

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    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    Quote Originally Posted by Falconfan View Post
    Great thread!

    Regarding on-campus football facilities- when AU lined up the big money to put a stadium on-campus, IMHO the program went up a notch and certainly the game-day experience for AU fans, players, and their opponents was greatly improved over the old Ashland Community Stadium. The Community Stadium was very nice; had great new turf and good seating; but the locker facilities were antiquated
    I could have used some turf back in 1993 when I traveled but didn't dress for the Hillsdale-Ashland game. It must have rained 2 inches during that game and I was soaked in mud just standing on the sidelines. Miserable night 25 years later. Lost 18-20 and had to ride all of the way home in drenched khakis.
    Hillsdale ‘94

  20. #20

    Default Re: Thoughts on Conference to date

    This was posted on the "Best Conferences" thread, but I think it also applies to our discussion. Boyblue uses math/rankings to break down the relative strength of the various D2 football conferences. Obviously, many of our teams just moved from conference #2 down a bit. But again, I'm actually pretty impressed at where the G-MAC stands compared to what the nay-sayers were predicting. Also, I have no idea if Ashland or NDC will ever join, but adding either or both would push the G-MAC further up this list.

    Quote Originally Posted by boyblue View Post
    Here is the average ranking of the top half of each conference. For conferences with an uneven number of teams the listing uses less than half the teams (i.e. 4 of 9) and, the second, more than half (i.e. 5 of 9)

    10 Mid America IAA
    15 Great Lakes IAC
    17 Gulf South
    22 Lone Star
    35 Great American
    40 Great Midwest
    41 Rocky Mtn AC
    44 Penn St AC
    49 Great Northwest
    52 Northern Sun
    54 Great Lakes Val
    55 South Atlantic
    55 Northeast-10
    86 Southern IAC
    99 Central IAA
    103 Mountain East



    10 Mid America IAA
    21 Great Lakes IAC
    22 Gulf South
    28 Lone Star
    35 Great American
    46 Rocky Mtn AC
    49 Penn St AC
    49 Great Northwest
    52 Northern Sun
    54 Great Lakes Val
    55 Great Midwest
    58 South Atlantic
    65 Northeast-10
    94 Southern IAC
    99 Central IAA
    103 Mountain East

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