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Thread: Time to Leave the PSAC?

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    Default Time to Leave the PSAC?

    The football gap between the PSAC “haves” and the “have nots” seems to be accelerating. And it doesn’t appear that the PSAC intends to do anything structural to address this. Are there more competitive DII conferences in which the the “haves” could play or the “have nots” can move to? I only see the gap getting larger and it is embarrassing to see the “have nots” almost always losing to the “haves.”

  2. #2

    Default Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

    Quote Originally Posted by BADinPA View Post
    The football gap between the PSAC “haves” and the “have nots” seems to be accelerating. And it doesn’t appear that the PSAC intends to do anything structural to address this. Are there more competitive DII conferences in which the the “haves” could play or the “have nots” can move to? I only see the gap getting larger and it is embarrassing to see the “have nots” almost always losing to the “haves.”
    OK, who do you see as the haves and have nots ? And given distances/costs, who can you bring in from outside ? Some of the teams I've considered haves are not doing too well this year.

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    Default Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

    Somebody is dominant in most college football conferences. In this era, IUP is it for the PSAC. Five, 10, 15 years from now, it might be somebody else. Although I know it's hard for some to wrap their heads around that fact.

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    Default Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

    Let's wait until Shepherd is in the conference and see how that affects things. This is a great conference if you like upsets and evenly matched teams. It's pretty rare that a team gets out of this conference unscathed.

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    The difference is some schools emphasize foosball and other emphasize non revenue sports so they can win Dixon Trophies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ironmaniup View Post
    OK, who do you see as the haves and have nots ? And given distances/costs, who can you bring in from outside ? Some of the teams I've considered haves are not doing too well this year.

    IUP better be still dominating in 15 years.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrshooter View Post
    Somebody is dominant in most college football conferences. In this era, IUP is it for the PSAC. Five, 10, 15 years from now, it might be somebody else. Although I know it's hard for some to wrap their heads around that fact.
    True, if the time frame is long enough, say 25 - 30 years, I think all of the PSAC teams have made the playoffs, except Lock Haven, and Gannon.

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    Default Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPNation View Post
    The difference is some schools emphasize foosball and other emphasize non revenue sports so they can win Dixon Trophies.
    Then go the FCS route. (And you forgot to reference tiddly-winks.)

    Others don't emphasize nonrevenue sports. They simply don't ignore nonrevenue sports. That's the difference.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

    It's probably more of a case of just having some really, really dead weight -- Seton Hill, Lock Haven, Millersville.


    Then, you have some really, really underachieving programs -- Gannon, Mercyhurst, East Stroudsburg (you can probably clump Bloom in this category as of late, too). The Erie schools being a combined 1-7 is just unacceptable. If you go by the scholarship report that so many of you love ... 7 scholarship Clarion just took down 36 scholarship Gannon -- and held them to negative rushing years FOR THE GAME. It probably didn't help, either, that GU gave up 200+ yards in penalties.

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    Default Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

    I think it is more a willingness to have consistently competitive, quality football programs instead of those that are periodically average. I think there would be general agreement on most of those that are consistent. They would make a good conference among themselves by leaving the PSAC to play quality DII football. Yes, financial considerations are important if travel distances are an issue.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

    The problem is rounding out the league. I would guess Cal, Rock IUP in the west, WCU and Shepherd in the east. who after that ? If you go by recent success, KU, Ship, Bloom and Edinboro are probably the ones That gives 9 teams, though all 4 have had some fairly down years recently - Ships being this year.

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    Default Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

    My brother had an interesting idea. How about we eliminate the east/west set up and put the best 8 teams in one division and the bottom one in the other. Like the English Premier League. Each year the bottom two from the top drop down, and the top two the bottom move up. Of course then you would probably want to stop playing the conference title game.
    GO HUSKIES!

  13. #13

    Default Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

    It may just be a waiting game. Not all of these current schools will be playing football in the upcoming 5-10 years.

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    Default Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

    The reward is not high enough for the top PSAC programs to break off and do anything on a conference level. The only thing I could see possibly happening is the PSAC breaking into two merit-based divisions, with the top 8 programs in one division and the remaining 8 in the other. The champion of the lower division can move up the following year, swapping places with last place in the higher division. A promotion/relegation system, if you will.

    Now, I don't see this happening either. So, TL;DR, no, it's not time to leave the PSAC.

    EDIT: CC_BU got there minutes before me.

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    Default Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

    Quote Originally Posted by BADinPA View Post
    The football gap between the PSAC “haves” and the “have nots” seems to be accelerating. And it doesn’t appear that the PSAC intends to do anything structural to address this. Are there more competitive DII conferences in which the the “haves” could play or the “have nots” can move to? I only see the gap getting larger and it is embarrassing to see the “have nots” almost always losing to the “haves.”
    This isn't only a PSAC issue, it's a D2 issue.

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    Default Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

    Let's go to the videotape with the top five teams in the D-II poll as of last week.

    No. 1 Minnesota State -- Northern Sun
    Mary: 0-4 this year, 3-30 previous three years.
    Minnesota-Crookston: 1-3 this year, 1-32 previous three years.
    Concordia St. Paul: 2-2 this year, 5-28 previous three years.

    No. 2 Northwest Missouri -- Mid-America
    Missouri Southern: 0-4 this year, 3-30 previous three years.
    Northeastern State: 0-4 this year, 6-27 previous three years.
    Nebraska Kearney: 2-2 this year, 4-29 previous three years.

    No. 3 Texas A&M-Commerce -- Lone Star
    UT-Permian Basin: 0-4 this year, 4-18 previous two years (entered in 2016).
    Western New Mexico: 0-3 this year, 7-15 previous two years (entered in 2016).

    No. 4 Indiana (Pa.) -- PSAC
    Millersville: 0-4 this year, 8-25 previous three years.
    Lock Haven: 1-3 this year, 8-25 previous three years.
    Seton Hill: 0-4 this year, 8-25 previous three years.

    No. 5 Ferris State -- Great Lakes
    Michigan Tech: 2-2 this year, 15-16 previous three years.
    Northern Michigan, 1-3 this year, 9-23 previous three years.
    Northwood: 0-2 this year, 15-18 previous three years.

    So, here's what we have. One of these conferences, the Great Lakes, is fairly devoid of "gimme" games. The Great Lakes also weeded out some weak-sister programs in the last few years -- Lake Erie, Walsh, Malone, Davenport.

    Outside of that, everyone else has weak sisters. Generally weaker than the PSAC's bottom feeders.
    Last edited by jrshooter; 09-24-2018 at 09:25 AM.

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    Default Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

    I'm going to assume that this is an IUP-inspired conversation. When I'm doing consulting one of the questions I usually ask folks is, "Okay if you choose that path, what then?" If IUP were to leave the PSAC, where would they go? There isn't a "better" conference within a reasonable distance. Even then most are full of private schools who play by different financial rules outside of the 36 full scholarship equivalencies limit for football. Would IUP coaches, players, parents, and fans rather travel to Slippery Rock to play a Thursday night basketball game or Hillsdale, Michigan? Charleston, West Virginia? Allendale, Michigan? The same could be said for moving up to FCS. The only conference who would probably take IUP is the Northeast Conference - and the same thing goes. All but one school is private. Would IUP coaches, players, parents, and fans rather travel to Slippery Rock to play a Thursday night basketball game or Fairfield, Connecticut? I can tell you that outside of St Francis and maybe Mount St Marys nobody in Pittsburgh has heard of or cares about those teams so you're not going to increase attendance just because you're playing D1 Bryant instead of Kutztown.

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    Default Time to Leave the PSAC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horror Child View Post
    This isn't only a PSAC issue, it's a D2 issue.

    Yep. The MIAA for all of their bravado has seen either two schools win their conference almost every year since 1989. Only in 2005 when Washburn won and last year when Ft Hays won have Northwest Misery or Pittsburg we can’t afford the H State not been the league champion.
    Last edited by IUPNation; 09-24-2018 at 09:44 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    I'm going to assume that this is an IUP-inspired conversation. When I'm doing consulting one of the questions I usually ask folks is, "Okay if you choose that path, what then?" If IUP were to leave the PSAC, where would they go? There isn't a "better" conference within a reasonable distance. Even then most are full of private schools who play by different financial rules outside of the 36 full scholarship equivalencies limit for football. Would IUP coaches, players, parents, and fans rather travel to Slippery Rock to play a Thursday night basketball game or Hillsdale, Michigan? Charleston, West Virginia? Allendale, Michigan? The same could be said for moving up to FCS. The only conference who would probably take IUP is the Northeast Conference - and the same thing goes. All but one school is private. Would IUP coaches, players, parents, and fans rather travel to Slippery Rock to play a Thursday night basketball game or Fairfield, Connecticut? I can tell you that outside of St Francis and maybe Mount St Marys nobody in Pittsburgh has heard of or cares about those teams so you're not going to increase attendance just because you're playing D1 Bryant instead of Kutztown.


    I didn't read this as being an IUP thing at all. I read as a 'why are so many programs in the PSAC terrible at football' topic.

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    Default Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

    Why are so many Northern Sun programs terrible at football? Why are so many Mid-America programs terrible at football? (Perhaps they have their own version of the Dixon Trophy.)

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