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Thread: Article on the future of the MEC

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    Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Interesting comments re NDC and Urbana “looking for a conference closer to home”.

    Given his ties to WVW, his sources are probably pretty decent.

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    Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Quote Originally Posted by Stea1th View Post
    Interesting comments re NDC and Urbana “looking for a conference closer to home”.

    Given his ties to WVW, his sources are probably pretty decent.
    You missed the first sentence of that quote..."pure speculation at this point." The "word on the street" he is referring to is probably this message board.

    Also worth noting that UVa-Wise did not do the same thing moving from D3 to DII...They moved from NAIA to DII.
    Last edited by boatcapt; 07-18-2018 at 12:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    You missed the first sentence of that quote..."pure speculation at this point." The "word on the street" he is referring to is probably this message board.

    Also worth noting that UVa-Wise did not do the same thing moving from D3 to DII...They moved from NAIA to DII.
    LOL. You're probably right!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    You missed the first sentence of that quote..."pure speculation at this point." The "word on the street" he is referring to is probably this message board.

    Also worth noting that UVa-Wise did not do the same thing moving from D3 to DII...They moved from NAIA to DII.
    UVa.-Wise moving from NAIA (Division 2.5) was easier for them to move up to DII than it will be for Frostburg State going from DIII to DII

  6. #6

    Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Quote Originally Posted by pennbraz View Post
    UVa.-Wise moving from NAIA (Division 2.5) was easier for them to move up to DII than it will be for Frostburg State going from DIII to DII
    Why do you think that? From what little I've looked at, I think Frostburg is going to quickly be a good member of D2.

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    Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    Why do you think that? From what little I've looked at, I think Frostburg is going to quickly be a good member of D2.
    Frostburg is set up to become good quickly but obviously, the proof will be in the pudding. Maryland is considered one of the top states for recruits in the nation (DC/Maryland/Virginia). They are located in a state with only one other DII member AND that school recruits primarily in only 2 to 3 Maryland Counties. Frostburg will also be able to offer lower in-state tuition Maryland recruits than DII's in WV, PA or VA. Frostburg has facilities that are on par with or exceed in some cases, the DII programs they will be competing against for recruits. Their "Regional Tuition" is pretty generous in both amount and area...certainly that isn't going to trump in-state, but they will be able to hold their own when a PA school for example and Frostburg are competing for a Eastern Ohio athlete. As with a number of WV schools, Frostburg also participates in the Academic Common Market meaning they can offer in-state tuition for recruits from participating states (WV, VA and others). Also, unlike many of the schools they will be recruiting against in WV and PA, their enrolment level is pretty stable showing only minor yearly up and down fluctuations.

    No guarantees but they do have a number of advantages that could result in rapid success.

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    Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    The "word on the street" he is referring to is probably this message board.
    I would hope that a former SID has better sources than this board, but I guess you never know.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Quote Originally Posted by Stea1th View Post
    I would hope that a former SID has better sources than this board, but I guess you never know.
    Even so, I wish they'd stop looking and start buying.

  10. Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    Why do you think that? From what little I've looked at, I think Frostburg is going to quickly be a good member of D2.
    I think it won't happen overnight for Frostburg to be good in many of their teams, but it will be in a good situation to become one in reasonable amount of time. It will all depend on scholarship $$, the players they are able to get and the coaches. Some sports it will be quicker for them than others. I have nothing against Frostburg and for it to move up to the MEC and DII is a good thing for the school as it is the level for a very good student-athlete experience.

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    Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Frostburg has some pretty solid programs, some middle of the road ones, and a couple that are pretty bad. Best programs are Football, Baseball and Softball were they are consistent winners and often nationally ranked in D3. Men's Soccer has been very good in the recent past but the last two years have been sub par (and sub 500). Women's Soccer is a quality program with a winning tradition. Volleyball has been bad but has shown a couple of years of good results so they seem to be on the up swing. The two basketball programs have been bad for a while. The men's program just hired a new HC but his credentials coming in are not very strong. Women's program has improved a little under a 3rd year HC but they are still sub 500.

    Not a MEC sport but it will be interesting to see what happens with women's Field Hockey. They have been bad but there are so few DII FH teams that I think a turn around can happen pretty quickly. I know the play a lot of FH in MD high schools and put a lot of players on D1 squads so perhaps there is a pool of DII caliber players they can tap that are currently going out of state.

    I think the big problem going from a non-athletic scholarship level to one that offers athletic scholarships is that basic difference. It's not enough to look for the "same type" of players you've looked for in the past and just offer them athletic scholly $'s. You are now looking for an almost completely different "level" of athlete (and often a different "level" of student). Having never done this before, D3 coaches can find it hard to shift gears. At best, it probably takes a year or two for them to shift gears and refocus on DII athletes...at worst, a good D3 coach may never figure out how to recruit DII well.

    I look for Football, Baseball and Softball to become good rather quickly (3 years?)...men's and women's Soccer and women's Volleyball to take a little longer but ultimately become solid DII programs...Sadly, I think men's and women's Basketball have a pretty long road to hoe before they become respectable.

  12. Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Quote Originally Posted by UFOILERFAN View Post
    Even so, I wish they'd stop looking and start buying.
    I don't have an inside contact, but I'm only one degree of separation. "Word on College Road" is that NDC and the GMAC remain in contact, but that a move is not necessarily imminent. There are things that are out of NDC's control that would have to happen first. While my gut still thinks that a move makes too much sense to not eventually happen, I do think that there is a decent chance that the we remain MEC for a long time. I'm fine with that. We will be fine in either conference. The MEC switch from UVA-Wise to Frostburg is beneficial to NDC.

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    Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    Frostburg has some pretty solid programs, some middle of the road ones, and a couple that are pretty bad. Best programs are Football, Baseball and Softball were they are consistent winners and often nationally ranked in D3. Men's Soccer has been very good in the recent past but the last two years have been sub par (and sub 500). Women's Soccer is a quality program with a winning tradition. Volleyball has been bad but has shown a couple of years of good results so they seem to be on the up swing. The two basketball programs have been bad for a while. The men's program just hired a new HC but his credentials coming in are not very strong. Women's program has improved a little under a 3rd year HC but they are still sub 500.

    Not a MEC sport but it will be interesting to see what happens with women's Field Hockey. They have been bad but there are so few DII FH teams that I think a turn around can happen pretty quickly. I know the play a lot of FH in MD high schools and put a lot of players on D1 squads so perhaps there is a pool of DII caliber players they can tap that are currently going out of state.

    I think the big problem going from a non-athletic scholarship level to one that offers athletic scholarships is that basic difference. It's not enough to look for the "same type" of players you've looked for in the past and just offer them athletic scholly $'s. You are now looking for an almost completely different "level" of athlete (and often a different "level" of student). Having never done this before, D3 coaches can find it hard to shift gears. At best, it probably takes a year or two for them to shift gears and refocus on DII athletes...at worst, a good D3 coach may never figure out how to recruit DII well.

    I look for Football, Baseball and Softball to become good rather quickly (3 years?)...men's and women's Soccer and women's Volleyball to take a little longer but ultimately become solid DII programs...Sadly, I think men's and women's Basketball have a pretty long road to hoe before they become respectable.
    As usual, you made some pretty good points Boat.

    We will have to play the wait and see game to see how this pans out, because this can go either way. Will Maryland resident kids playing at other D-II, FCS and MAYBE FBS programs that are not getting any playing time consider Frostburg St knowing that there is a pretty solid chance they would get some playing time after assuming the team only has "D-III players" there?

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    Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Quote Originally Posted by Stea1th View Post
    I don't have an inside contact, but I'm only one degree of separation. "Word on College Road" is that NDC and the GMAC remain in contact, but that a move is not necessarily imminent. There are things that are out of NDC's control that would have to happen first.
    From what I have heard through the grapevine and deduced myself, I think this is pretty accurate. I would be surprised if NDC moved without certain events happening first or concurrently.

    Unless the MEC shakes things up with its Shepherd replacement or something unexpected happens (like TNU pulling up stakes) I think “not imminent” is a good description.

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    Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Quote Originally Posted by ShoNuff View Post
    As usual, you made some pretty good points Boat.

    We will have to play the wait and see game to see how this pans out, because this can go either way. Will Maryland resident kids playing at other D-II, FCS and MAYBE FBS programs that are not getting any playing time consider Frostburg St knowing that there is a pretty solid chance they would get some playing time after assuming the team only has "D-III players" there?
    From a recruting standpoint, it truely is all about the coaches. The DMV produces MANY quality D1 football players and as witnessed by Shepherd and some other out of state DII's, many quality DII players as well. Question will be can the Frostburg staff make that shift from IDing D3 level in state talent to DII level and make the case to those players that staying "home" is in their best interest? They will have a financial advantage but financials dont always win the day.

    I think their early recruting will be strongly influenced by what they do this coming season. If they make another deep playoff run or even win the D3 NC, they will be able to pitch a pretty strong case to MD players (STRONG national D3 program stepping up to DII to show them how football is played in MD...+ cheaper in state tuition...in a place were your parents can easily come see you play).

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    Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Knowing the locations of many of the MEC schools I don't think Frostburg will have any trouble recruiting and being a contender within several years for both football and basketball. The Baltimore/Washington area is full of good athletes.

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    Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Quote Originally Posted by Stea1th View Post
    I would hope that a former SID has better sources than this board, but I guess you never know.
    You'd be amazed how often news breaks on here long before in the media. This is the leading news source for D2 sports ... at least the major ones.

    Don't forget our schools are all in podunk towns. The schools essentially run the media and call the shots of what gets in and what doesn't.

    Many, many stories get tipped on this board. Some, of course, are total b.s., but, ...

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    Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    This author has some validity and inside information.

    Duane Carpenter is a former SID at WV Wesleyan. He also worked along side Jesse Skiles at Wesleyan. Skiles was recently hired as AD at Glenville State but was a long-time track/cross-country coach at WV Wesleyan. Skiles has been around the WVIAC/MEC a long, long time. He is well-known and respected as a coach. Skiles also worked as a sports writer for this publication and the Clarksburg paper.

    I would say Carpenter has a little more pulse on the situation than most writers in the state. Some of these smaller papers near the institutions actually know people that work in the athletic departments and the information tends to be a little more credible.

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    Default Re: Article on the future of the MEC

    Quote Originally Posted by Sportsnut View Post
    Knowing the locations of many of the MEC schools I don't think Frostburg will have any trouble recruiting and being a contender within several years for both football and basketball. The Baltimore/Washington area is full of good athletes.
    It will be interesting to see this play out. Frostburg has the in state advantage that should put them in a very good position when recruiting against they fellow MEC and PSAC teams. Also their apparent ability to give in-state tuition to student athletes from out of state would be a huge advantage.

    Watching DII over the years, it seems the major difference between a good team and a bad one is the quality of the Head Coach. It's been shown on numerous occasions that a new GOOD HC can come into what was assumed to be a very bad program and turn them around seemingly overnight. Equally, a poor HC can take a team loaded with individual talent and do next to nothing with them.

    Fitzgerald at Frostburg seems to be a very good football coach from an X's and O's standpoint and they have been very successful at D3 recruiting. If he can make the shift to IDing and recruiting DII level athletes, they could become good in football rather quickly.

    Basketball on the other hand, I think will be a problem. Yes, they have the same recruiting advantages as the football team but they are starting at a much worse place and they have a new HC who really hasn't proven all that good...particularly as a coach for a men's team. Who knows, he may end up being the second coming of Crutch but more likely, he will struggle.

    Also to consider and perhaps even the MOST important factor, how does the alumni base react to this change and do they realize they need to donate specifically to the athletic department to fund athletic schollys? D3 scholarships for athletes in many ways is a wink and nod shell game were athletes seem to always get particular "academic" or "diversity" based scholarships. Alumni simply donate to the college and the college funds these schollys in accordance with their internal procedures. Not that way with athletic schollys. I believe it is the same way in MD, but most states there is a bright line between athletic scholly funding and academic schollys with most (many?) states requiring athletic schollys to be funded 100% from donations made specifically to the athletic department. If the alumni either don't know that they need to change how they donate OR don't really support the move to DII, Frostburg may have to limit their athletic scholly level and that would have direct effect on the field.
    Last edited by boatcapt; 07-23-2018 at 09:22 AM.

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