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Thread: Piaa split up...

  1. #1
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    Default Piaa split up...

    Any comments about this looming major change.
    http://www.abc27.com/news/local/near...iaa/1299009613

  2. #2

    Default Re: Piaa split up...

    Quote Originally Posted by CALUPA69 View Post
    Any comments about this looming major change.
    http://www.abc27.com/news/local/near...iaa/1299009613
    I think the PIAA, the legislature, let's say all of the above are a little late to the conversation. The complaints have been mounting for a long time and nothing was done. As a result of literally rampant "recruiting" there have been a lot of inequities in Pennsylvania and it just hasn't been addressed. Sometimes you just have to take matters into your own hands and that appears to be happening now. The problem isn't just in football and basketball it's been in wrestling, too, e.g. Becahi, recently St. Joseph's in State College, and others.

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    Default Piaa split up...

    Quote Originally Posted by CALUPA69 View Post
    Any comments about this looming major change.
    http://www.abc27.com/news/local/near...iaa/1299009613

    Yet it was fine when Philadelphia Catholic League schools were not in the PIAA.

    So reclassify all the private school up. A smaller Catholic school should be able to go toe to toe with the biggest public schools.

    The Philadelphia Catholic League can’t help that it’s the top League in the state. It always was....even when they weren’t in the PIAA.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Piaa split up...

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPNation View Post
    Yet it was fine when Philadelphia Catholic League schools were not in the PIAA.

    So reclassify all the private school up. A smaller Catholic school should be able to go toe to toe with the biggest public schools.

    The Philadelphia Catholic League can’t help that it’s the top League in the state. It always was....even when they weren’t in the PIAA.
    The PCL is different. Recruiting from other districts for the purpose of having a better team was never a contentious issue. The wide disparities didn't really exist. Plus, a lot of the players don't live that far grom the private or parochial school. What you've had in other parts of the state is private schools raiding neighboring public schools for their best athletes. I'm most familiar with the wrestling landscape. For many years Bethlehem Catholic was accused of recruiting throughout the wrestling-rich District 11 area. Then they would dominate the state in the AA classification. They have now bumped up to AAA and they are not as dominant but that could change. A new Catholic school in State College took 5 top starters from Bellefonte this past year (there are 14 starters total). I don't know the circumstances of how it happened but it's happened a lot in PA abnd the PIAA ignored it (until now, apparently).

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    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    The PCL is different. Recruiting from other districts for the purpose of having a better team was never a contentious issue. The wide disparities didn't really exist. Plus, a lot of the players don't live that far grom the private or parochial school. What you've had in other parts of the state is private schools raiding neighboring public schools for their best athletes. I'm most familiar with the wrestling landscape. For many years Bethlehem Catholic was accused of recruiting throughout the wrestling-rich District 11 area. Then they would dominate the state in the AA classification. They have now bumped up to AAA and they are not as dominant but that could change. A new Catholic school in State College took 5 top starters from Bellefonte this past year (there are 14 starters total). I don't know the circumstances of how it happened but it's happened a lot in PA abnd the PIAA ignored it (until now, apparently).

    Suburban Philadelphia public high schools routinely have kids from the city on their teams. The conveniently have relatives in the suburbs to use as a home address.

    Plymouth Whitemarsh is known to do this being only 3-4 miles from the city limits.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Piaa split up...

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPNation View Post
    Suburban Philadelphia public high schools routinely have kids from the city on their teams. The conveniently have relatives in the suburbs to use as a home address.

    Plymouth Whitemarsh is known to do this being only 3-4 miles from the city limits.
    Well, Pittsburgh Central Catholic routinely has kids from an hour outside the city (Justice Evans).

    I've said in the past I'm not a fan of this practice as my alma mater has severely paid the price over the years with players bolting to privates.

    Kiski Valley schools constantly lose players to Greensburg Central Catholic, Pittsburgh Central Catholic and Shady Side Academy.

    I know, I know. They go for the academics.

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    Default Re: Piaa split up...

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Well, Pittsburgh Central Catholic routinely has kids from an hour outside the city (Justice Evans).

    I've said in the past I'm not a fan of this practice as my alma mater has severely paid the price over the years with players bolting to privates.

    Kiski Valley schools constantly lose players to Greensburg Central Catholic, Pittsburgh Central Catholic and Shady Side Academy.

    I know, I know. They go for the academics.
    I'm going back a lot of years in saying it didn't used to be like this. Having attended South Hills Catholic (now Seton-Lasalle) along with my brothers and most of my friends, I remember a fierce competition among the feeder parishes to get their elementary students accepted. There was no such thing as transfers. The South Hills was exclusive SHC territory, the Oakland/Shadyside/East Liberty neighborhood belonged to Central and everything north of the Allegheny was North Catholic. At the time most of the funding came from the parishes on a per student basis. My parents kicked in a nominal amount around $100 a year for each of us. When that funding went away and the tuitions began to soar the need for bodies to justify their continued existence led to admission of non-Catholic students as long as they could pay. Pretty soon all bets were off and the availability of essentially HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIPS put the schools in their current situation. From a parental point of view who wouldn't want their children to attend an exclusive private school that could open all a lot of college doors. Going back to the days of the PIAA vs PCIAA structures seems to be the only way out of this predicament.

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    Default Re: Piaa split up...

    How do schools like Cathedral Prep (football) and Kennedy Catholic (basketball) "reload" every year? I can tell you now that the catholic elementary schools aren't loaded with talent. If you look at where their players come from, it's from districts like Harborcreek, Fairview, Erie City and even as far as Conneaut, Ohio.

    Where do the players come from for Kennedy Catholic come from? Sharon, Pa is that loaded with D1 basketball players? Has anyone noticed that Bobby Huggins follows that team like it's his own?

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    Default Re: Piaa split up...

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPalum View Post
    How do schools like Cathedral Prep (football) and Kennedy Catholic (basketball) "reload" every year? I can tell you now that the catholic elementary schools aren't loaded with talent. If you look at where their players come from, it's from districts like Harborcreek, Fairview, Erie City and even as far as Conneaut, Ohio.

    Where do the players come from for Kennedy Catholic come from? Sharon, Pa is that loaded with D1 basketball players? Has anyone noticed that Bobby Huggins follows that team like it's his own?
    As I indicated a fair number of scholarships are given, whether out of genuine concern for deserving, underfunded students or outstanding athletes, and the end result is scholastic athletic super schools. Where I live in NYC there's a suburban high school with an enrollment of 700 who is the NY state all time leader in hockey championships and I can guarantee you that there are not that many great hockey players on the Gold Coast of Long Island. It is what it is.

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    Philly has had the Public League and the Catholic league for decades. Why couldn't the State do the same thing?

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    Default Piaa split up...

    Quote Originally Posted by CALUPA69 View Post
    I'm going back a lot of years in saying it didn't used to be like this. Having attended South Hills Catholic (now Seton-Lasalle) along with my brothers and most of my friends, I remember a fierce competition among the feeder parishes to get their elementary students accepted. There was no such thing as transfers. The South Hills was exclusive SHC territory, the Oakland/Shadyside/East Liberty neighborhood belonged to Central and everything north of the Allegheny was North Catholic. At the time most of the funding came from the parishes on a per student basis. My parents kicked in a nominal amount around $100 a year for each of us. When that funding went away and the tuitions began to soar the need for bodies to justify their continued existence led to admission of non-Catholic students as long as they could pay. Pretty soon all bets were off and the availability of essentially HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIPS put the schools in their current situation. From a parental point of view who wouldn't want their children to attend an exclusive private school that could open all a lot of college doors. Going back to the days of the PIAA vs PCIAA structures seems to be the only way out of this predicament.

    Philadelphia Archdiocese high schools were the same way. Your parish school was assigned a high school to feed into. Now you can choose any one you want.
    Last edited by IUPNation; 07-14-2018 at 11:08 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Piaa split up...

    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorVoice View Post
    Philly has had the Public League and the Catholic league for decades. Why couldn't the State do the same thing?
    Getting back to the gist of the article, as I interpret it there is a growing movement among publics to form their own playoff association exclusive of private schools i.e. leave the PIAA behind (since they have failed to address the issue). Am I reading it right? If so, that idea works for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    Getting back to the gist of the article, as I interpret it there is a growing movement among publics to form their own playoff association exclusive of private schools i.e. leave the PIAA behind (since they have failed to address the issue). Am I reading it right? If so, that idea works for me.

    Then we won’t have true state champions.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Piaa split up...

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPNation View Post
    Then we won’t have true state champions.
    We don't have "true state champions" now because of the size classification. Plus, many Prep schools are not in the PIAA e.g. Malvern Prep, The Kiski School. Wyoming Seminary and these schools have really competitive teams which could sometimes win the PIAA. Some prep schools are members of the PIAA e.g. Valley Forge Military Academy. I'm not sure why some are in and others not.
    Last edited by iupgroundhog; 07-14-2018 at 11:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Piaa split up...

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPNation View Post
    Then we won’t have true state champions.
    There was nothing "not true" about the two PCIAA BB championships that SHC won when I was there. Although some would argue the point, from the POV of the players, coaches and fans, we were THE CHAMPIONS !!! Pretty much like winning a D2 NC.

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    Default Re: Piaa split up...

    I think it's fair to agree to a certain radius around private schools and say that's their limit on athletes. This way it makes it harder to enroll where it geographically doesn't make sense. However I have a colleague who drives from Youngstown every day to work in the Pittsburgh airport region. He's talked about enrolling his kids at a private school near his job rather than an hour away back home. But I doubt he'd do that if they were athletes just because of all the extra travel for games. That's the only reasonable exception I can think about.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Piaa split up...

    How do the boarding schools like Wyoming Seminary and The Hill play into it?

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    How do the boarding schools like Wyoming Seminary and The Hill play into it?
    I would say they don't. If they aren't a PIAA member now then this whole topic has no affect on them whatsoever. I'm no expert on the PIAA requirements but it appears that being a boarding school doesn't matter since VFMI is a PIAA member and it is a boarding school. I think what you have to recognize is that the PIAA is a voluntary organization. Public and private schools can choose to be a member or not. Schools like Wyoming Seminary and The Hill School, etc. are members of a national prep school association with different standards. That's their choice.

    Obviously, some of these prep schools recruit athletes from far and wide. When these PIAA private schools start to recruit in similar ways that becomes a problem and it has become a problem IMHO.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Piaa split up...

    Quote Originally Posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    I would say they don't. If they aren't a PIAA member now then this whole topic has no affect on them whatsoever. I'm no expert on the PIAA requirements but it appears that being a boarding school doesn't matter since VFMI is a PIAA member and it is a boarding school. I think what you have to recognize is that the PIAA is a voluntary organization. Public and private schools can choose to be a member or not. Schools like Wyoming Seminary and The Hill School, etc. are members of a national prep school association with different standards. That's their choice.

    Obviously, some of these prep schools recruit athletes from far and wide. When these PIAA private schools start to recruit in similar ways that becomes a problem and it has become a problem IMHO.
    Wyoming Seminary is a member of the PIAA in class AAA, and so are many others, including schools for delinquents like Glen Mills.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Piaa split up...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    Wyoming Seminary is a member of the PIAA in class AAA, and so are many others, including schools for delinquents like Glen Mills.
    Interesting. Seems they participate in PIAA in certain sports and others they don't. Some sports like wrestling they don't meet the PIAA rules. Read the thread in the link below.

    http://forums.pa-wrestling.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6924

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