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Thread: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

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    Default Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    I know I've posted this before, but I really wanna know what everyone thinks as far as potential future members of the GLIAC (especially for football).

    I think UIndy is a good fit. Anyone else in the are that would contribute as a football playing school? I sure as heck can't think of any off the top of my head.

    Concordia - Ann Arbor is a huge stretch, but it's out there haha.

    Call me crazy, but I do miss the tradition of Hillsdale in the GLIAC. Just isn't the same. I sure missed GV playing Hillsdale. Hopefully at least a non-conference game is coming in the near future.

    My last pitch (and this one is really out of left field): I've seen plenty of people say Eastern, Central, and Western Michigan should drop to D2 and be GLIAC members. I think this is an absolute joke, but hey. What does everyone else think about it? Haha.

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    Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    I don't think anyone would disagree with UIndy being a great fit. But they left before for a reason, that being football. And football is going to determine where the rest of their sports go. They have it made in the GLVC in football, there's no reason for them to torpedo their own success and move back to the GLIAC.

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    Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankslaker View Post
    I know I've posted this before, but I really wanna know what everyone thinks as far as potential future members of the GLIAC (especially for football).

    I think UIndy is a good fit. Anyone else in the are that would contribute as a football playing school? I sure as heck can't think of any off the top of my head.

    Concordia - Ann Arbor is a huge stretch, but it's out there haha.

    Call me crazy, but I do miss the tradition of Hillsdale in the GLIAC. Just isn't the same. I sure missed GV playing Hillsdale. Hopefully at least a non-conference game is coming in the near future.

    My last pitch (and this one is really out of left field): I've seen plenty of people say Eastern, Central, and Western Michigan should drop to D2 and be GLIAC members. I think this is an absolute joke, but hey. What does everyone else think about it? Haha.
    I think UIndy would be a fantastic get, but my knowledge of the situation would lead me to believe that the school is not even considering it. They're a founding member of the GLVC, so that doesn't really surprise me.

    I agree that the premise of CMU or WMU dropping isn't realistic. The idea of EASTERN doing so, on the other hand, is absolutely NOT a joke. Will they? Might be doubtful, but when one reviews their funding, attendance, and level of competitive success, the question of "why are they D1" is absolutely worthy of review. I'm not being critical, I am just saying that there is a lot about that school and its situation that all but scream D2.

    I was hopeful that Benedictine would choose us, but that appears not to have turned out.

    Hillsdale isn't coming back (if ever) until there is a change at the top. I too miss them.

    Chapmaja had a good post in another thread that talked about a couple of other potential options (he also mentioned Concordia IIRC). An intriguing one he suggested that I also have started to hear rumblings about is Lawrence Tech. They are adding football, but I have no idea whether they aspire to be an NCAA school or not. Certainly, they are a footprint fit...

    I don't think change is over for us. Football appears to be stabilized (at least in the short term), but the overall health of the league is also at stake and it will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years. There is little doubt that our footprint is one of our larger challenges, but it is a challenge that we have to figure out how to overcome. Will continue to be an interesting watch...

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    Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankslaker View Post
    My last pitch (and this one is really out of left field): I've seen plenty of people say Eastern, Central, and Western Michigan should drop to D2 and be GLIAC members. I think this is an absolute joke, but hey. What does everyone else think about it? Haha.
    I doubt if they would do it, but wouldn't it make much more sense for the MAC to go FCS? That way they are still D1 in all sports. I can't see them dropping to D2.

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    Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Nicolette View Post
    I think UIndy would be a fantastic get, but my knowledge of the situation would lead me to believe that the school is not even considering it. They're a founding member of the GLVC, so that doesn't really surprise me.

    I agree that the premise of CMU or WMU dropping isn't realistic. The idea of EASTERN doing so, on the other hand, is absolutely NOT a joke. Will they? Might be doubtful, but when one reviews their funding, attendance, and level of competitive success, the question of "why are they D1" is absolutely worthy of review. I'm not being critical, I am just saying that there is a lot about that school and its situation that all but scream D2.

    I was hopeful that Benedictine would choose us, but that appears not to have turned out.

    Hillsdale isn't coming back (if ever) until there is a change at the top. I too miss them.

    Chapmaja had a good post in another thread that talked about a couple of other potential options (he also mentioned Concordia IIRC). An intriguing one he suggested that I also have started to hear rumblings about is Lawrence Tech. They are adding football, but I have no idea whether they aspire to be an NCAA school or not. Certainly, they are a footprint fit...

    I don't think change is over for us. Football appears to be stabilized (at least in the short term), but the overall health of the league is also at stake and it will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years. There is little doubt that our footprint is one of our larger challenges, but it is a challenge that we have to figure out how to overcome. Will continue to be an interesting watch...
    I find it interesting that footprint seems to be the GLIAC's biggest issue, when compared to most other conferences, it actually isn't that bad. 11 hours from Ashland to Michigan Tech. 15 hours from Black Hills State to New Mexico Highlands. The RMAC has it worse in terms of travel, the GNAC has it worse, the LSC has it worse. But those conferences don't seem to have an issue.

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    Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Nicolette View Post
    I think UIndy would be a fantastic get, but my knowledge of the situation would lead me to believe that the school is not even considering it. They're a founding member of the GLVC, so that doesn't really surprise me.

    I agree that the premise of CMU or WMU dropping isn't realistic. The idea of EASTERN doing so, on the other hand, is absolutely NOT a joke. Will they? Might be doubtful, but when one reviews their funding, attendance, and level of competitive success, the question of "why are they D1" is absolutely worthy of review. I'm not being critical, I am just saying that there is a lot about that school and its situation that all but scream D2.

    I was hopeful that Benedictine would choose us, but that appears not to have turned out.

    Hillsdale isn't coming back (if ever) until there is a change at the top. I too miss them.

    Chapmaja had a good post in another thread that talked about a couple of other potential options (he also mentioned Concordia IIRC). An intriguing one he suggested that I also have started to hear rumblings about is Lawrence Tech. They are adding football, but I have no idea whether they aspire to be an NCAA school or not. Certainly, they are a footprint fit...

    I don't think change is over for us. Football appears to be stabilized (at least in the short term), but the overall health of the league is also at stake and it will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years. There is little doubt that our footprint is one of our larger challenges, but it is a challenge that we have to figure out how to overcome. Will continue to be an interesting watch...
    As far as the MAC schools go, Eastern won't consider it, which is why I said it is a joke. They want to be D1 simply because it's D1. They want to have that title.

    I didn't think of Lawrence Tech either. I forgot they had a start up program (kinda reminds me of another GLIAC team that just started up a football program...).

    I do agree the football situation will stabilize for the next few years, at least through 2020. Hopefully we can get a couple more teams. 11 teams would be solid. 10 would be ideal. Leaves that room for 1 or 2 OOC games that can be a help in SOS.

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    Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by KleShreen View Post
    I find it interesting that footprint seems to be the GLIAC's biggest issue, when compared to most other conferences, it actually isn't that bad. 11 hours from Ashland to Michigan Tech. 15 hours from Black Hills State to New Mexico Highlands. The RMAC has it worse in terms of travel, the GNAC has it worse, the LSC has it worse. But those conferences don't seem to have an issue.
    You know, I looked at this right after I posted my initial post. I wondered how the GLIAC compared to other conferences as far as foot print. Found the same thing. Interesting little tid bit. I'd like to get a bit more reasoning from the schools in the GLIAC on why the travel is so terrible for them, but there are teams further west that have the same, if not more, traveling to do and they don't seem to question affiliation as much.

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    Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    I know nobody likes to hear it, but Michigan Tech and Northern Michigan are a detriment to the GLIAC at this point. We can't get many of the wealth of schools south of Michigan to consider the GLIAC because none of them want to make that trip to the UP for conference games in a majority of the sports. The GLIAC would be in a better position if they were able to pawn the UP schools off to the NSIC, but that is never going to happen because it would then make travel tougher for the NSIC and historical GLIAC people would be livid. But as it stands, they are a detriment.

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    Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by KleShreen View Post
    I know nobody likes to hear it, but Michigan Tech and Northern Michigan are a detriment to the GLIAC at this point. We can't get many of the wealth of schools south of Michigan to consider the GLIAC because none of them want to make that trip to the UP for conference games in a majority of the sports. The GLIAC would be in a better position if they were able to pawn the UP schools off to the NSIC, but that is never going to happen because it would then make travel tougher for the NSIC and historical GLIAC people would be livid. But as it stands, they are a detriment.
    I like both Tech and Northern- we do play them in hockey- but that would put us at 18. The NSIC is already bloated at 16. No thanks.

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    Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by KleShreen View Post
    I know nobody likes to hear it, but Michigan Tech and Northern Michigan are a detriment to the GLIAC at this point. We can't get many of the wealth of schools south of Michigan to consider the GLIAC because none of them want to make that trip to the UP for conference games in a majority of the sports. The GLIAC would be in a better position if they were able to pawn the UP schools off to the NSIC, but that is never going to happen because it would then make travel tougher for the NSIC and historical GLIAC people would be livid. But as it stands, they are a detriment.
    You just answered your own question from your other post: Why don't leagues like the RMAC make a big deal about their travel? Because they don't have a choice. The "wealth of schools south of Michigan" have options, and if they can reduce travel expenses and missed class time they're going to do it. Schools like New Mexico Highlands don't have two or three conferences that are better fits for travel. One could argue they'd be a solid fit in the LSC, but that presumes they want to go there and that the LSC wants them. My point is that they don't have an easy, viable option nearby that can significantly reduce their footprint OR "align to University missions". The schools south of Michigan are making an issue out of travel (among other things) because they can.

    As for a "jettison" of the UP schools, I get your logic. Making that happen (not saying it should happen) is an entirely different story. Laker is dead-on in his post that the NSIC is already bloated, so the premise that they would even be willing to entertain adding a couple of teams (particularly ones that expand their league's already vast footprint) is simply a non-starter. With that option dead, their only other play (presuming the hypothetical that they weren't in the GLIAC) would be Independence. I just don't see how that could possibly work. They would have to travel often, and likely offer guarantees to get anyone to go up there. If they were some how forced out of the league and there hadn't been a split in the NSIC where they would now fit in a new conference or new "eastern alignment" of that league, it would likely be a death knell to their programs.

    Quote Originally Posted by laker View Post
    I doubt if they would do it, but wouldn't it make much more sense for the MAC to go FCS? That way they are still D1 in all sports. I can't see them dropping to D2.
    I don't think there is enough of the MAC that needs to seriously review this. One could certainly make the case that the Michigan schools would be advised to at least look at it (I was a little PC in my prior post, but I actually think that Eastern SHOULD drop to the GLIAC...the #'s and the profile of their university are far more aligned to D2 than not...personal opinion), but there are some other schools that aren't in the same straits. In truth, I think this segues us to a larger discussion of the future: Who is to say what the NCAA and any of the Divisions might actually look like in the coming years? I read a post in another thread (looked for it and couldn't find it) where someone mentioned the idea of the Power 5 splitting off. What is the NCAA going to look like THEN? Could make a big impact on what a lot of schools in the MAC , D2, and beyond are going to do.

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    Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Nicolette View Post
    You just answered your own question from your other post: Why don't leagues like the RMAC make a big deal about their travel? Because they don't have a choice. The "wealth of schools south of Michigan" have options, and if they can reduce travel expenses and missed class time they're going to do it. Schools like New Mexico Highlands don't have two or three conferences that are better fits for travel. One could argue they'd be a solid fit in the LSC, but that presumes they want to go there and that the LSC wants them. My point is that they don't have an easy, viable option nearby that can significantly reduce their footprint OR "align to University missions". The schools south of Michigan are making an issue out of travel (among other things) because they can.

    As for a "jettison" of the UP schools, I get your logic. Making that happen (not saying it should happen) is an entirely different story. Laker is dead-on in his post that the NSIC is already bloated, so the premise that they would even be willing to entertain adding a couple of teams (particularly ones that expand their league's already vast footprint) is simply a non-starter. With that option dead, their only other play (presuming the hypothetical that they weren't in the GLIAC) would be Independence. I just don't see how that could possibly work. They would have to travel often, and likely offer guarantees to get anyone to go up there. If they were some how forced out of the league and there hadn't been a split in the NSIC where they would now fit in a new conference or new "eastern alignment" of that league, it would likely be a death knell to their programs.



    I don't think there is enough of the MAC that needs to seriously review this. One could certainly make the case that the Michigan schools would be advised to at least look at it (I was a little PC in my prior post, but I actually think that Eastern SHOULD drop to the GLIAC...the #'s and the profile of their university are far more aligned to D2 than not...personal opinion), but there are some other schools that aren't in the same straits. In truth, I think this segues us to a larger discussion of the future: Who is to say what the NCAA and any of the Divisions might actually look like in the coming years? I read a post in another thread (looked for it and couldn't find it) where someone mentioned the idea of the Power 5 splitting off. What is the NCAA going to look like THEN? Could make a big impact on what a lot of schools in the MAC , D2, and beyond are going to do.
    But why are those schools not constantly in a struggle for funding like Ashland appears to be? Ashland always cites travel within the GLIAC as being a significant cost to their program and why they are constantly in financial trouble. But I don't see those same issues coming from those schools out west.

  12. Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankslaker View Post
    You know, I looked at this right after I posted my initial post. I wondered how the GLIAC compared to other conferences as far as foot print. Found the same thing. Interesting little tid bit. I'd like to get a bit more reasoning from the schools in the GLIAC on why the travel is so terrible for them, but there are teams further west that have the same, if not more, traveling to do and they don't seem to question affiliation as much.
    I think the difference with other schools in particular ones in the rockies and NM is they probably don't have a choice. I would imagine there aren't that many D2 schools within their state or an adjoining state so they have to travel further. I can only speak for Ashland. When you see a handful of other D2 schools...several within 90 minutes, it's obviously going to create discussion as to why you travel 10 plus hours to play schools. Losing Hillsdale also affects Ashland as it was a good football rival and it wasn't that bad as far as travel.

    Considering the strength of their overall athletic programs, it's too bad Tiffin and Findlay left. They never challenged in football but they were solid. They are really tough in multiple other sports. From reading the other posters it doesn't sound like there's much out there as far as other teams that can come in. It's obviously as issue in football when the GLIAC is at 8 games as far as a conference schedule. I'm sure they are working every angle possible to try to see what schools may be a good fit.

  13. Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by KleShreen View Post
    But why are those schools not constantly in a struggle for funding like Ashland appears to be? Ashland always cites travel within the GLIAC as being a significant cost to their program and why they are constantly in financial trouble. But I don't see those same issues coming from those schools out west.
    I'm not sure we're you get that Ashland struggles financially. The reason to leave the GLIAC was based on Athletes time of travel not cost. Ashlands athletics are in a solid place financially which is why they have added back men's soccer last year, and added men's Tennis and Women's Laccros starting next year. So while cost might be less if they went to the GMAC it's not the reason to make a change.

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    Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by unc4life View Post
    I'm not sure we're you get that Ashland struggles financially. The reason to leave the GLIAC was based on Athletes time of travel not cost. Ashlands athletics are in a solid place financially which is why they have added back men's soccer last year, and added men's Tennis and Women's Laccros starting next year. So while cost might be less if they went to the GMAC it's not the reason to make a change.
    http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...cceeds_wh.html

    Plus losing soccer recently (before bringing it back) led me to that conclusion.

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    Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by KleShreen View Post
    But why are those schools not constantly in a struggle for funding like Ashland appears to be? Ashland always cites travel within the GLIAC as being a significant cost to their program and why they are constantly in financial trouble. But I don't see those same issues coming from those schools out west.
    I actually think they are but it's all relative and about perspective. They stopped really harping on them after the scholarship reduction vote occurred in 2004. They also don't have a GV in their conference to compare themselves to so there's less self-pity.

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    Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by KleShreen View Post
    http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...cceeds_wh.html

    Plus losing soccer recently (before bringing it back) led me to that conclusion.
    Article is four years old...

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    Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by richald View Post
    Article is four years old...
    It is. Ashland posters on here kept citing financial issues when talking about potentially moving conferences, as well, so I figured that meant finances were an issue still. I know Ashland laid off some faculty/staff shortly after that article came out, plus cutting soccer. I am aware that they brought soccer back, but I had been told that was due to private funds from donors specifically to bring the team back and that athletics itself is running on an exorbitant amount of private donors and not university funds, which doesn't bode well.

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    Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    There are two that would be great additions in Cleveland.....John Carroll and Baldwin Wallace. Both strong financially.....and great traditions.....

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    Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by richald View Post
    There are two that would be great additions in Cleveland.....John Carroll and Baldwin Wallace. Both strong financially.....and great traditions.....
    The Browns....

  20. Default Re: Future GLIAC Members? Particularly Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by KleShreen View Post
    It is. Ashland posters on here kept citing financial issues when talking about potentially moving conferences, as well, so I figured that meant finances were an issue still. I know Ashland laid off some faculty/staff shortly after that article came out, plus cutting soccer. I am aware that they brought soccer back, but I had been told that was due to private funds from donors specifically to bring the team back and that athletics itself is running on an exorbitant amount of private donors and not university funds, which doesn't bode well.
    I think it's safe to say that AU athletics do a very good job of pulling in private funds to help with Athletics, in fact I would say that is one major advantages they have over every D2 school in Ohio and most others in the GLIAC. I'm sure if the AU women's basketball team needed anything they could have it lined up in mins. I think there is a difference though from helping supplement and enhance athletics and fully funding them. I can promise you AU athletics are not being fully funded by donors.

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