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Thread: PSAC hoops at the Gate

  1. #1

    Default PSAC hoops at the Gate

    The product is much better this season. There are 7-8 very good teams. The season has seen numerous thrilling games.

    People, however, aren't very interested.

    On average, the PSAC is drawing 80 less fans per game this basketball season than it did a year ago. Last season saw an average (league-wide) gate of 477. This season the number is down to 397 (approaching 20%).

    Some schools have seen mild increases. Most have not. Some, in fact, have seen dramatic declines at the gate.


    The Winners:

    Edinboro (+51)
    Gannon (+31)
    Clarion (+25)
    UPJ (+10)

    That's it. Of 18 member programs, the rest are in the red. Some in the deep red.

    IUP (-350 per game)
    Mercyhurst (-284)
    Cheyney (-182)
    Lock Haven (-136)
    West Chester (-114)
    ESU (-106)
    Cal (-87)
    Ship (-84)
    Mansfield (-69)
    Millersville (-43)
    Seton Hill (-38)
    Bloomsburg (-35)
    SRU (-27)
    Kutztown (-11)


    Percentage-wise, the two hit the hardest are IUP and Mercyhurst.

    IUP's average gate is down from 1,367 a year ago to just 1,017 this season (consider it was 2,000 not many years ago). Mercyhurst drew 632 last season and just 348 this year.

    Some of the places you expect it. However, for schools like Shippensburg, WCU and ESU to be showing negative declines in the 15-20 percent range is very odd based on the seasons they are having.



    Current Season Avg. Home Attendance (2017-18)

    IUP - 1,017
    Gannon - 743
    Kutztown - 633
    WCU - 519
    Mansfield - 417
    SRU - 405
    Edinboro - 399
    ESU - 394
    Ship - 377
    Mercy - 348
    Bloom - 324
    Millersville - 282
    Clarion - 265
    Seton Hill - 230
    Cal - 219
    UPJ - 207
    Cheyney - 181
    Lock Haven - 179

  2. Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    The product is much better this season. There are 7-8 very good teams. The season has seen numerous thrilling games.

    People, however, aren't very interested.

    On average, the PSAC is drawing 80 less fans per game this basketball season than it did a year ago. Last season saw an average (league-wide) gate of 477. This season the number is down to 397 (approaching 20%).

    Some schools have seen mild increases. Most have not. Some, in fact, have seen dramatic declines at the gate.


    The Winners:

    Edinboro (+51)
    Gannon (+31)
    Clarion (+25)
    UPJ (+10)

    That's it. Of 18 member programs, the rest are in the red. Some in the deep red.

    IUP (-350 per game)
    Mercyhurst (-284)
    Cheyney (-182)
    Lock Haven (-136)
    West Chester (-114)
    ESU (-106)
    Cal (-87)
    Ship (-84)
    Mansfield (-69)
    Millersville (-43)
    Seton Hill (-38)
    Bloomsburg (-35)
    SRU (-27)
    Kutztown (-11)


    Percentage-wise, the two hit the hardest are IUP and Mercyhurst.

    IUP's average gate is down from 1,367 a year ago to just 1,017 this season (consider it was 2,000 not many years ago).
    Mercyhurst drew 632 last season and just 348 this year.

    Some of the places you expect it. However, for schools like Shippensburg, WCU and ESU to be showing negative declines in the 15-20 percent range is very odd based on the seasons they are having.



    Current Season Avg. Home Attendance (2017-18)

    IUP - 1,017
    Gannon - 743
    Kutztown - 633
    WCU - 519
    Mansfield - 417
    SRU - 405
    Edinboro - 399
    ESU - 394
    Ship - 377
    Mercy - 348
    Bloom - 324
    Millersville - 282
    Clarion - 265
    Seton Hill - 230
    Cal - 219
    UPJ - 207
    Cheyney - 181
    Lock Haven - 179
    I think that we have been over and over the IUP attendance thing at the KCAC to the point of ad nauseam by now. LOWER YOUR F UCKING TICKET PRICES YOU BUNCH OF STUPID AZZES!!!

    My God, what more can be said about this. We have been through this how many times now? Concrete reasons have been given why your over-pricing does not work in a struggling place like Indiana County. How utterly stupid can the dolts who run things down there be. It's D-II men's and women's basketball. There comes a point in time when you just should be grateful that people want to show up to watch these games.

    My urging to the IUP faithful and the folks of Indiana County is to boycott this place! Maybe just wait until there are PSAC or Atlantic Region playoff games held there as at least the conference and NCAA sets the pricing for the tickets (for the most part anyways). Enough is enough of the totally inept handling of KCAC prices!

    -

  3. #3

    Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    I didn't post this because of IUP. I know we've discussed IUP over and over from that angle. But a league-wide decline of 20% in one year is pretty drastic.

    The problem as shown isn't just an IUP thing.

    Many of those numbers are beyond embarrassing.
    Last edited by IUPbigINDIANS; 02-16-2018 at 10:08 AM.

  4. Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    I didn't post this because of IUP. I know we've discussed IUP over and over from that angle. But a league-wide decline of 20% in one year is pretty drastic.

    The problem as shown isn't just an IUP thing.

    Many of those numbers are beyond embarrassing.
    What did the Clarion-IUP games draw the other night---something like 177 for the gals and 225 for the gents?? That's pretty shocking to be honest.

    The NFL also had alarming declines this year in television viewership.

    -

  5. #5

    Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    Yeah ... and of that 225 at Clarion for the IUP game ... probably 115 were from Indiana.

  6. #6

    Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    Two questions:

    How many families with kids are at the games? In Erie, the Bayhawks NBA G-league team gets the families. Gannon gets older folks and and a smattering of students.

    How do Saturday afternoon games draw compared to Saturday night games? Gannon used to never play on Saturday afternoon in the attendance heyday. It always seems like afternoon crowds are smaller than night crowds on weekends.

  7. #7

    Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    Good point. IUP is the only one still doing all Saturday night games.

    Again ... just a one-year view. Go back 3 years and the results are even worse.

    We have discussed it year after year. Just amazing it gets worse each year.

    The IUP problems are very clear. The others are interesting. Mercyhurst is down almost half from last year. That's a lot of revenue just not in tickets but refreshments, etc.

  8. #8

    Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    The IUP game at Gannon this past Monday ... I could only see the first 7-8 rows (across from the benches) from the web feed but it looked like bingo night at the VFW. No offense to the older folk ... just not what I expected to see. I think that's a common theme. Many of these programs had very loyal followings for years but those followings have aged and, well, died out some. They aren't being replaced. That has started to happen at IUP and it's only going to get worse in the coming years. The loyal crowd at IUP is certainly in the 55-70 age group.

    The Erie paper had some game photos. The Hammermill looked bare. Quite the contrast from IUP games up there in the not-too-long-ago past.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden89 View Post
    Two questions:

    How many families with kids are at the games? In Erie, the Bayhawks NBA G-league team gets the families. Gannon gets older folks and and a smattering of students.

    How do Saturday afternoon games draw compared to Saturday night games? Gannon used to never play on Saturday afternoon in the attendance heyday. It always seems like afternoon crowds are smaller than night crowds on weekends.
    Good points. I too noticed that there were a lot of Gannon fans at the Edinboro game last Saturday and they were mostly aged 50+. Edinboro does get some families but I'll go out on a limb and assume most are there supporting someone on the court.

    What I've learned over the years barking up trees is that attendance a) doesn't factor into athletic administration's performance review, and b) provides such insignificant revenue that there isn't even a financial incentive to drive attendance if it doesn't factor into their annual review.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden89 View Post
    Two questions:

    How many families with kids are at the games? In Erie, the Bayhawks NBA G-league team gets the families. Gannon gets older folks and and a smattering of students.

    How do Saturday afternoon games draw compared to Saturday night games? Gannon used to never play on Saturday afternoon in the attendance heyday. It always seems like afternoon crowds are smaller than night crowds on weekends.
    That's not even true!!! BayHawks games are low attended and most that go there have free tickets. Gannon can't just give away 1000 tickets.

  11. #11

    Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    Off-topic but are the D-League or G-League games fun to attend? Is it quality basketball or organized street ball? I know those players are on and off the rosters so frequently I question the continuity of play.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    The product is much better this season. There are 7-8 very good teams. The season has seen numerous thrilling games.

    People, however, aren't very interested.

    On average, the PSAC is drawing 80 less fans per game this basketball season than it did a year ago. Last season saw an average (league-wide) gate of 477. This season the number is down to 397 (approaching 20%).

    Some schools have seen mild increases. Most have not. Some, in fact, have seen dramatic declines at the gate.


    The Winners:

    Edinboro (+51)
    Gannon (+31)
    Clarion (+25)
    UPJ (+10)

    That's it. Of 18 member programs, the rest are in the red. Some in the deep red.

    IUP (-350 per game)
    Mercyhurst (-284)
    Cheyney (-182)
    Lock Haven (-136)
    West Chester (-114)
    ESU (-106)
    Cal (-87)
    Ship (-84)
    Mansfield (-69)
    Millersville (-43)
    Seton Hill (-38)
    Bloomsburg (-35)
    SRU (-27)
    Kutztown (-11)


    Percentage-wise, the two hit the hardest are IUP and Mercyhurst.

    IUP's average gate is down from 1,367 a year ago to just 1,017 this season (consider it was 2,000 not many years ago). Mercyhurst drew 632 last season and just 348 this year.

    Some of the places you expect it. However, for schools like Shippensburg, WCU and ESU to be showing negative declines in the 15-20 percent range is very odd based on the seasons they are having.



    Current Season Avg. Home Attendance (2017-18)

    IUP - 1,017
    Gannon - 743
    Kutztown - 633
    WCU - 519
    Mansfield - 417
    SRU - 405
    Edinboro - 399
    ESU - 394
    Ship - 377
    Mercy - 348
    Bloom - 324
    Millersville - 282
    Clarion - 265
    Seton Hill - 230
    Cal - 219
    UPJ - 207
    Cheyney - 181
    Lock Haven - 179
    West Chester's home attendance includes three games that were played at Widener while they were unexpectedly getting a new floor in their field house. Attendance for those games were 217, 0 (none recorded) and 172. Excluding those "home" games, their attendance is slightly up over last season.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    There's no reason general admission for any PSAC event should be more than $5 for adults, $3 for teens/students, and FREE for kids 12 and under. Get butts in seats.

  14. Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    I wonder how many watch the games online. Other then allowing families of players far away to be able to see them play, what reason does the psac have to have their product free of charge. Does anyone understand the thought behind this decision.

  15. #15

    Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPalum View Post
    That's not even true!!! BayHawks games are low attended and most that go there have free tickets. Gannon can't just give away 1000 tickets.
    It's not like EIA is packed, but Bayhawks do outdraw Gannon, free tickets or not. And they cannibalize the fan base that would otherwise consider going to Gannon. There are other reasons for the drop in GU attendance (and quite a few factors that Gannon can do something about), but a significant drop-off occurred when the Bayhawks started.

  16. #16

    Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    Off-topic but are the D-League or G-League games fun to attend? Is it quality basketball or organized street ball? I know those players are on and off the rosters so frequently I question the continuity of play.
    There are plenty of things going on off the court that make it fun for kids. I do not like the quality and style of play, but there are those who do. You have to get the families to help secure a fan base. I never see people with kids at Gannon, but there are plenty at the Bayhawks. And the Otters hockey team as well. Personally, I find the Otters games much more entertaining even thought I'm not a hockey fan. The two pro teams that play at a modern, newly-refurbished arena don't help the GU attendance. (Again -- I am not making excuses ... there are things that GU could do to bolster attendance and atmosphere; it's not a priority with the athletic department).

  17. #17

    Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjtheman View Post
    I wonder how many watch the games online. Other then allowing families of players far away to be able to see them play, what reason does the psac have to have their product free of charge. Does anyone understand the thought behind this decision.
    Good point. This is the first year that the Gannon booster club didn't have a bus trip to a road game. A bunch of people got together at a local restaurant to watch the Seton Hill doubleheader webcast on a big screen. I heard that it was very well-attended.

    The fact that the games are on a webcast (and PCN) make not travelling to IUP a much easier decision.

  18. Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden89 View Post
    There are plenty of things going on off the court that make it fun for kids. I do not like the quality and style of play, but there are those who do. You have to get the families to help secure a fan base. I never see people with kids at Gannon, but there are plenty at the Bayhawks. And the Otters hockey team as well. Personally, I find the Otters games much more entertaining even thought I'm not a hockey fan. The two pro teams that play at a modern, newly-refurbished arena don't help the GU attendance. (Again -- I am not making excuses ... there are things that GU could do to bolster attendance and atmosphere; it's not a priority with the athletic department).
    Do you think having Gannon play a game or two at the Erie insurance arena is a good idea. Maybe a showcase game against iup that could help marketing of the Gannon team. Just a thought.

  19. Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjtheman View Post
    I wonder how many watch the games online. Other then allowing families of players far away to be able to see them play, what reason does the psac have to have their product free of charge. Does anyone understand the thought behind this decision.
    Certainly former NFL Comish Pete Rozelle saw the NFL explode in popularity with his TV deal that allowed so much more people to see their product. I don't believe that it is ever a bad thing to get as much exposure as you can get when you have something to sell.

    The nature of this thread and the overall decline in ratings of other popular sports is very intriguing indeed. At IUP it was mostly just a case of the KCAC pricing people out of the arena. A lot of folks lost interest in it for that very reason alone. I have heard it said by many people. I've never heard anyone say they didn't like the coaches or players or teams. It's always the same----pure economics!

    But what about these other schools? What is the key factor there? Are sports ebbing out in our contemporary society with everyone simply too busy punching the buttons of their apps?

    -

  20. Default Re: PSAC hoops at the Gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    There's no reason general admission for any PSAC event should be more than $5 for adults, $3 for teens/students, and FREE for kids 12 and under. Get butts in seats.
    I agree. It's D-II for cryin' out loud. Just be happy that someone wants to actually show up and pay something to see it. I'd actually be willing to go say $8 for a cheap seat up high at the KCAC. But even if they did lower it to that---they would add this charge and this fee and you would still be shelling out $11-$12 for a cheap seat like it is now.

    -

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