Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    12,022
    Contribute to D2
    Rep Power
    181695

    Default Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    For about a decade, we had a stretch where the interior was dominated by the big man. Going back to the days of John Smith, through the likes of Matt Schneck, Clayton Vette, Assem Marei and most recently Dan Jansen, there have always been a crop of good big men anchoring a number of the top teams in the Northern Sun.

    Until now.

    Looking up and down the rosters, I fail to see post players who are on that level. The closest right now would probably be Logan Doyle and Carter Kirk, but I certainly wouldn't put them in a category with those players. And they're both entering their senior seasons, so what's the future once they graduate?

    The league's most talented player is a wing (Davis). After him is probably a trio of point guards (Bruggeman, Spencer, Kretchman). Where do the bigs slot in?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanger86 View Post
    For about a decade, we had a stretch where the interior was dominated by the big man. Going back to the days of John Smith, through the likes of Matt Schneck, Clayton Vette, Assem Marei and most recently Dan Jansen, there have always been a crop of good big men anchoring a number of the top teams in the Northern Sun.

    Until now.

    Looking up and down the rosters, I fail to see post players who are on that level. The closest right now would probably be Logan Doyle and Carter Kirk...
    I would include Seville from Moorhead from a couple years ago. But your overall point is correct.

    I think it's an issue with basketball at virtually all levels. As the three point line and ball screen basketball has become the norm, the big man's role has been greatly reduced. So I'm not sure if the talent is no longer there or if the game has changed so much. I'm also not sure the three point revolution is so great for the game (Greg popovich echo that a few years ago) in the long-run. My friend (who is a old "big man") is arguing to change the rules making a three pointer worth 4, a two pointer worth 3, and a ft worth 2. I won't hold my breath, but interesting concept...

    Getting back to NSIC, the Concordia St. Paul big has a chance to be something. Also keep an eye on Bergh at Moorhead. He also has the chance to be a legit big in a few years.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moorhead123 View Post
    I would include Seville from Moorhead from a couple years ago. But your overall point is correct.

    I think it's an issue with basketball at virtually all levels. As the three point line and ball screen basketball has become the norm, the big man's role has been greatly reduced. So I'm not sure if the talent is no longer there or if the game has changed so much. I'm also not sure the three point revolution is so great for the game (Greg popovich echo that a few years ago) in the long-run. My friend (who is a old "big man") is arguing to change the rules making a three pointer worth 4, a two pointer worth 3, and a ft worth 2. I won't hold my breath, but interesting concept...

    Getting back to NSIC, the Concordia St. Paul big has a chance to be something. Also keep an eye on Bergh at Moorhead. He also has the chance to be a legit big in a few years.
    I agree that Brown at Concordia has a shot to be really good. Winona went after him hard and whiffed. Too bad. I know nothing about Bergh. I think some of this again is the expansion of low level D1's locally. They are going to chase anyone tall with a chance and almost all kids bite for the rush of a D1's scholarship.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
    I think some of this again is the expansion of low level D1's locally. They are going to chase anyone tall with a chance and almost all kids bite for the rush of a D1's scholarship.
    True...but also one reason there seems to be record number of transfers each year as well.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    God's Country- between Buffalo Lake & Hector
    Posts
    46,342
    Rep Power
    1000000

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    I remember the Brazilian, Atila Santos. He and Nelson were pretty decent big men for MSU.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by laker View Post
    I remember the Brazilian, Atila Santos. He and Nelson were pretty decent big men for MSU.
    I knew there was a big man from Mankato I wasn't remembering, but Santos played his entire MSU career in the NCC. I would probably throw Nelson on this list though.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moorhead123 View Post
    I would include Seville from Moorhead from a couple years ago. But your overall point is correct.

    Getting back to NSIC, the Concordia St. Paul big has a chance to be something. Also keep an eye on Bergh at Moorhead. He also has the chance to be a legit big in a few years.
    From what I've seen at this point, these guys (Sevlie, Brown, Bergh) would fall in the category more with players like DeMasi, Smith and VanKlompenburg for SMSU, Alex Novak for MSUM, Brett Ervin for UMD, Aaron Busack and Robert Thomas for NSU, etc.

    But again, most of those guys weren't the best (and sometimes not the second-best) big in the NSIC while they played. That's the drop-off in bigs that I'm seeing. Maybe it is the change in how the game is played, maybe it's because the Dakota schools are taking the best options, I don't know.

    Over the years, where would guys like Tyler Flack and Trevor Gruis (USD), Ian Theisen and Jordan Dykstra (SDSU), Dexter Werner and Marshall Bjorklund (NDSU) have been, assuming the Dakota schools were all still D2? Would the NSIC get some of them? If so, where would they rank among these lists?
    Last edited by Stanger86; 06-20-2017 at 01:12 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanger86 View Post

    Over the years, where would guys like Tyler Flack and Trevor Gruis (USD), Ian Theisen and Jordan Dykstra (SDSU), Dexter Werner and Marshall Bjorklund (NDSU) have been, assuming the Dakota schools were all still D2? Would the NSIC get some of them? If so, where would they rank among these lists?
    My guess is that this list of guys would definitely fall in the category with some of the top big men in NSIC. But the fact that Werner, Flack, etc. are listed as bigs when they are 6'6" shows how game has changed. There is an argument that a true great big man should be a rim protector in addition to a low post scoring threat, etc. That may be the main difference between being a true D1 big or not.

    Bergh is an incoming freshman. 6'10" and still certainly raw, but has the size, touch and shot blocking potential to be very good NSIC big in a couple years.

  9. Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanger86 View Post
    Over the years, where would guys like Tyler Flack and Trevor Gruis (USD), Ian Theisen and Jordan Dykstra (SDSU), Dexter Werner and Marshall Bjorklund (NDSU) have been, assuming the Dakota schools were all still D2? Would the NSIC get some of them? If so, where would they rank among these lists?
    I like the thought process but, there is one problem with it, and its kind of a big one.
    If those schools were still Division II, the NSIC as we know it today wouldn't exist cuz the NCC would still be around.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanger86 View Post
    From what I've seen at this point, these guys (Sevlie, Brown, Bergh) would fall in the category more with players like DeMasi, Smith and VanKlompenburg for SMSU, Alex Novak for MSUM, Brett Ervin for UMD, Aaron Busack and Robert Thomas for NSU, etc.

    But again, most of those guys weren't the best (and sometimes not the second-best) big in the NSIC while they played. That's the drop-off in bigs that I'm seeing. Maybe it is the change in how the game is played, maybe it's because the Dakota schools are taking the best options, I don't know.

    Over the years, where would guys like Tyler Flack and Trevor Gruis (USD), Ian Theisen and Jordan Dykstra (SDSU), Dexter Werner and Marshall Bjorklund (NDSU) have been, assuming the Dakota schools were all still D2? Would the NSIC get some of them? If so, where would they rank among these lists?
    Still amazing to me that people thought of Rob Thomas with such high regard.

  11. Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moorhead123 View Post
    Bergh is an incoming freshman. 6'10" and still certainly raw, but has the size, touch and shot blocking potential to be very good NSIC big in a couple years.
    I saw him play in the high school all-star game and I really thought that he was a good get for Moorhead. He seemed to have a lot of skills and did very well in that game I thought.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by simple as a $3 bill View Post
    I like the thought process but, there is one problem with it, and its kind of a big one.
    If those schools were still Division II, the NSIC as we know it today wouldn't exist cuz the NCC would still be around.
    At least one NSIC school seemed to hold their own during that era 😉

  13. #13

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by simple as a $3 bill View Post
    I saw him play in the high school all-star game and I really thought that he was a good get for Moorhead. He seemed to have a lot of skills and did very well in that game I thought.
    I'm certainly drinking the cool-aid with Moorhead's incoming freshman class. Has the potential to be a very good class.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by simple as a $3 bill View Post
    I like the thought process but, there is one problem with it, and its kind of a big one.
    If those schools were still Division II, the NSIC as we know it today wouldn't exist cuz the NCC would still be around.
    Well of course, but I'd like to believe the NSIC schools would win some recruiting battles over some of the NCC counterparts if at the same level.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by NSU4LIFE View Post
    Still amazing to me that people thought of Rob Thomas with such high regard.
    Haha I debated if I should include him or not. I just went through the list of previous NSIC all-conference teams and career leaders to pick out names.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moorhead123 View Post
    But the fact that Werner, Flack, etc. are listed as bigs when they are 6'6" shows how game has changed. There is an argument that a true great big man should be a rim protector in addition to a low post scoring threat, etc. That may be the main difference between being a true D1 big or not.
    That's fair. I was just going through roster archives trying to find guys who I thought would maybe go to a current NSIC school if not for the lure of Division I.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    160 miles S of SUFU. As a crow flies
    Posts
    1,543
    Rep Power
    296546

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    There is an increase of D2 schools moving to D1 in BB and FCS in FB, many NAIA schools moving to D2. There are only so many big men to go around. My theory is D1 schools hoard most post players hoping they will develop into starting talent and when they don't, some transfer to D2.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by vikingfaithful View Post
    There is an increase of D2 schools moving to D1 in BB and FCS in FB, many NAIA schools moving to D2. There are only so many big men to go around. My theory is D1 schools hoard most post players hoping they will develop into starting talent and when they don't, some transfer to D2.
    I was going to post this same theory. Spot on in my opinion.

    More D1 schools. More big guys going D1 to start and less going D2.

    Perfect example is Logan Doyle. Belonged in D2 where he is great.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    I'm really hoping Augie's big man transfer, Dykman, will be competitive on Doyle's level right out of the gate. Would be huge if he was able to step up and make an impact right away. Not sure what type of player he is (true on-the-block big man or more of a stretch-4 type of big), but I know he was highly regarded out of high school and has mostly just been stuck behind two really good low-major D1 players above him on the depth chart in Daum and, to a slightly lesser extent, Theisen.

    Other than Dykman (recognizing I have no idea how good he actually is), I don't currently see a potentially dominant big on Augie's roster at this point. Certainly no one at Jansen/Schilling's level from what I can tell. But who knows...Sevlie went from a 5 points and 1 rebound per game near-nobody his sophomore year to a 1st Team All-Conference player his junior year for Moorhead. Maybe some of Augie's young bigs (Kerkman or Behrends) will make a jump like that in a year or two. I won't complain if they do.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,850
    Rep Power
    189456

    Default Re: Where have all the NSIC big men gone?

    1.) It's only been 15 months since Danimal, Sevlie, and Schilling wrestled each other at the ever neutral Pentagon. Any inquiries into big man extinction are just acts of the most recent SMALL SAMPLE SIZE THEATRE.
    2.) Ted Brown has been mentioned as a shining beacon of hope and I whole heartedly agree. Physically he's got some Danimal in his blood but he needs some polishing. I'm surprised to not be reading about Tommy Gathje from Winona. He was impressive vs Augie in Winona last winter. Or how about Tyler Rudolph from Minot? He only averaged 21-10 last year.

    Overall the talent is slightly down and oddly focused on mediocre to atrocious teams but it's still there. I view it as more of a blip than a trend.
    Last edited by Augieholic; 06-21-2017 at 10:26 PM.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •