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Thread: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

  1. #1401
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    Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Looking For 9 View Post
    I think the players know a bad shot by most players means you are coming out. Bezold knows making no mistakes is his role. I also think he needs to work on getting more shots but he often begins good ball movement.

    Every player ,except Goetz, has improved. Many are becoming comfortable with their roles. I suspect their will be some "let's go shoot free throws" from team leaders. I see this team as rare. It has guys that when needed are leaders but also will follow and listen to teammates.

    Concerns: This team only has two things that lead to wins three point shooting and quickness. If we lose either it will be very tough.

    Do not over look Deng's play. He works hard and makes a real difference with his size and jumping ability.

    Does anyone have insight about NOT playing D&E next week? I'm hoping we get credit for a W because D&E some how screwed up.
    OK after reviewing what they did after adding Tiffin...

    There's 13 teams, and a 20 game league season. You play 8 teams twice, and 4 teams once. I don't know how they decide which teams you only play 1x vs 2x, unless it has to do with travel distance. For us, this year we play everyone twice except Ohio Dominican, Ohio Valley, Davis & Elkins, and Lake Erie.

    So no...lol...we won't get an automatic W for not playing D&E next week, sorry!

    One other comment on your post - as for everyone except for Goetz improving, Goetz HAS improved. It's not as obvious because he was a scorer already, but his game has improved in non-scoring ways. He plays better defense than the first few games of the season, and he is more aggressive with the ball (i.e. not just relying on catch & shoot). So maybe his shooting % has trailed off a bit, but in terms of his all around game, I don't think it's fair to say he hasn't improved.

  2. Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Looking For 9 View Post
    I feel two things are really important about the G MAC tourney. Getting in the mid pack is a real need. Also keeping Findlay from hosting is very important.

    Cedarville hosting would be great. I know I am getting way out over my skies but that is the fun of being a fan.
    I'm SHOCKED!!! I think Findlay really needs to host. I can't find any smileys on here so you'll just have to imagine them.

  3. #1403

    Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    I could live with Cedarville hosting. Really, almost anywhere but A-B would suit me.

  4. Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    Thanks for the G MAC schedule. I thought we played everyone twice.

    I am not down on Goetz (he may be the most skilled player we have) but I do think most of his important numbers have gone the wrong way. It was great to see a W with him scoring only 10 points. His asst. numbers are good and his second half shooting is good. We need 10/12 points in the first half. That would help Mo get his easy shoots in the second half.

  5. Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    The GMAC schedule is one of the life's great mysteries. Thanks for explaining it, not sure I still understand it. I know another issue is that there is one more women's team then men with Ursuline in the conference for women's sports.

  6. Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    Seems like it is more about last year's standing than travel due to the WBB schedule being different than MBB.

  7. #1407
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    Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    Kentucky Wesleyan hosted their first Wrestling Duel Meet of the season against Urbana and lost 15-39. Urbana is a first year program too. Wesleyan has had some defections on the team already. A lot of kids coming out of high school wrestling programs, who had some success in high school, quickly find out they are at a level that was beyond their comprehension. There are so many matches in high school that are ridiculously mismatched with decent wrestlers and (terrible wrestlers that are only on a team to fill out a roster). Some high school wrestling programs put more emphasis on conditioning than wrestling and vice versa. It appears the KWC team will be lucky to just get through this season and the coach is going to have to start recruiting hard soon. He never had much of a window to recruit for this year. Forfeiting four matches is almost unheard of in high school. There was always a JV wrestler who could fill the spot and possibly save points. I have seen wrestling rosters that would wrestle an underweight wrestler up a class in order to not give up a forfeit. It is experience gained for a novice wrestler like that in high school. Obviously, there are not that many wrestlers on the KWC team now. It is going to take some scholarship money to build the KWC wrestling roster. And, a lot of heavy duty recruiting.

    This has nothing to do with basketball, but I doubt KWC will win a duel meet this season in wrestling. They may not win one next season unless the coach or coaches are already out there recruiting like crazy. They have to recruit some non scholarship wrestlers to field a team that is at least two wrestlers deep in every weight class. In high school some weight classes will have 3 or more wrestlers in the same weight class and there are wrestle offs before each match. That is not the case at KWC. The athletic department needs to recruit wrestlers that are also football players. That would help, and it can be done.
    Last edited by alumnifan; 01-06-2019 at 02:37 AM.

  8. #1408
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    Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    If Wesleyan can get in the G-MAC Conference tournament, that would be a solid sign of moving forward with a team this young. KWC has a tough schedule coming up and they close the regular season with games at Findlay and Hillsdale. My sense is KWC will not have a winning conference season this year. And, that is okay by me. However, if they CAN squeak into the conference tournament, they may have enough experience by then to make some noise. KWC needs to consistently put together two halves in which each half can produce close to .45 percent from the field on offense. What seems to be happening is the opposition's coaching staff makes adjustments to it's defense at the half and that has proven effective. I don't know how you can change something like that unless you get more players scoring consistent numbers. That is what needs to happen. Wesleyan needs to get more players involved on offense. I could be wrong. However, the bottom line is the Panthers need to score more points. This is not a real high scoring team compared to the good KWC teams that I have seen. Good KWC teams score and score in a hurry and every player on the court can score. They will be alright.

  9. #1409

    Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    We aren't a real high scoring team, but we are in the top 2-4 in the league in scoring defense. This is another example of Cooper's system being similar to Bellarmine. Bellarmine under Davenport has never been a team that scores a ton of points. A high scoring game for them has been in the 80s, typically, thinking back. Now this year they're averaging like 85, but I'm thinking that's higher than it has been, though I could be wrong. They're perfectly comfortable beating someone 65-50. It does feel a little different not putting up 80-90 points per game, but I can definitely appreciate that we are (in my opinion) already a better team defensively than ANY of the teams Happy put on the court. That was a hallmark of Todd Lee's KWC teams, too...strong half-court defense. And honestly, even scoring around 70 points per game, the offense is fun to watch. The ball actually moves! The players actually move without the ball! It's no longer a couple of passes and a one-on-one move to the basket. It's true TEAM offense and it's a joy to watch.
    Last edited by kdubnation; 01-07-2019 at 12:32 PM.

  10. Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by kdubnation View Post
    And honestly, even scoring around 70 points per game, the offense is fun to watch. The ball actually moves! The players actually move without the ball! It's no longer a couple of passes and a one-on-one move to the basket. It's true TEAM offense and it's a joy to watch.
    This is so true. The offense that Cooper runs is just better basketball. Which is a great reason KWC is leading the GMAC in assists. Passing up good shots for great shots makes the game so much more fun to watch!

  11. Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    All that is needed is for shots to fall a little better. I think having a full week of practice will help. I'm looking forward to the game where all our three point shooters are hitting. I hope it is against one of the stronger teams. One good upset would do wonders for Owensboro fans and the team. Some G MAC wins are no longer upsets. :).

  12. #1412
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    Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    Where have all the flowers gone? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgXNVA9ngx8

    The last time KWC was in a National Championship game will be 16 years ago this Spring. The longest stretch that the KWC team has ever been in which they did not play in a National Championship Game (Roy can confirm it. I have no statistic before me to back up this claim, but it seems right). That really needs to change, and the only way to do that is to bring in the best players possible. Any other answers? Does anyone care anymore? Does anyone care that the D2 program with the most National Championships and tournament wins has now become just another historic program gone south? And, before anyone says I am a negative Nellie, I can say I could care less what anyone thinks about me. What about the KWC Men's Basketball Team? Does anyone really care about this program anymore? This includes the administration and the current coaching staff. DO WHAT IT TAKES! KWC has done it before. NO EXCUSES!

    https://www.ncaa.com/history/basketball-men/d2

    Look at this stretch:

    2003 Northeastern State (32-3) Larry Gipson 75-64 **Kentucky Wesleyan Lakeland, Fla.
    2002 Metro State (29-6) Mike Dunlap 80-72 Kentucky Wesleyan Evansville, Ind.
    2001 Kentucky Wesleyan (31-3) Ray Harper 72-63 Washburn Bakersfield, Calif.
    2000 Metro State (33-4) Mike Dunlap 97-79 Kentucky Wesleyan Louisville, Ky.
    1999 Kentucky Wesleyan (35-2) Ray Harper 75-60 Metro State Louisville, Ky.
    1998 UC Davis (31-2) Bob Williams 83-77 Kentucky Wesleyan Louisville, Ky.
    Last edited by alumnifan; 01-09-2019 at 06:30 AM.

  13. #1413
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    Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    Sure they can steam roll over Alice and Floyd, and a terrible TNU team. What about that Thanksgiving Classic this season? Ever seen one like that before? I know this is the coach's first season. Give him time. Okay, I will. He should get his team in the NCAA tournament next season. That would be a start. Do what it takes!

  14. #1414
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    Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    Wesleyan has now got one of the slickest athletic websites in D2, thanks to Sidearm and Roy and the Sports Information Department. When you walk into the Sportscenter there is a haunting and it still shines of YEARS GONE BY without much help from the spirits of ages past. They're all probably pixxed off. However, they can and will come back if people of extreme importance to KWC would just give a big da**. I am not saying they don't, but they need to step it up. That is my opinion from somebody who graduated with Ray Harper. I played in the Quonset hut league and was horrible, but I was there for every home game as a student at the Sportscenter during a time that doesn't even seem possible with the attendance like it was then. I followed them around on the road when possible for years. How many students do you think attends a game now on average? What is the average attendance? Nobody 16 years ago thought this program would ever be in this condition. No matter what happened in the past that set Wesleyan back should matter anymore. That is all water under the bridge. DO WHAT IT TAKES KENTUCKY WESLEYAN COLLEGE MEN"S BASKETBALL TEAM!!!!!!!!

    TRADITION? When was the last time Kentucky Wesleyan lost to Bellarmine by 26 points at the Sportscenter? That is what I thought.
    Last edited by alumnifan; 01-09-2019 at 07:04 AM.

  15. Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    I'm relatively new, and I don't mean to offend, but the ping-pong battle of your posts blows my mind. One day you talk about liking the team and seeing potential and giving them time to grow. Then your next post is 3 rants about how the program isn't where it should be and why it's no good. I stand by the fact that fans like you are not what the program needs, especially right now! They need nothing but support now. Not a disgruntled former student who isn't happy with current student attendance. Do you know what the first step in a rebuild is? To hire a quality coach, which I believe the administration has done. Given the numerous facility upgrades and recent coaching hires, there is zero doubt in my mind that KWC administration is invested in athletics and wants to be successful. I've said it before, but I speak as a former Wesleyan athlete. I understand the position of the kids on the team that are working their butts off to get to a point that fans like you can be proud.

    However, attendance does need to be worked on. The guy brought in, Greg Richard, is working on it, but quite frankly children playing musical chairs isn't the entertainment that puts butts in seats. They need to start offering incentive to students to be there, whether it's a free hot dog or maybe pizza or even a free t-shirt every now and then for all students that attend. That will get them there, and hopefully once they watch their classmates fight on the floor they will keep coming back. Not everyone loves basketball and students do have other obligations so I get that you wont have huge turnouts all the time. But, the student turnout for the Bellarmine game shows me they can get them there. In 2018, per the NCAA stats, KWC averaged 1,055 in attendance. That is not the days of glory, but that is not terrible. They are just outside the top 30, and with the program Cooper is working to build, they could very well climb back into that category. Just for comparison (and because I prefer to bring facts and numbers) here are the attendance averages for 2018 in the GMAC, which show that KWC still carries a significant home-court advantage.

    Findlay-1068
    KWC-1055
    Cedarville-901
    Alderson-647
    Walsh-594
    Hillsdale- 546
    Trevecca-469
    Ohio Dominican-441
    Malone- 401
    Davis and Elikins- 329
    Tiffin- 256
    Ohio Valley-237
    Lake Erie- 166

    And for additional comparison, Bellarmine averaged 1757 and USI averaged 1414. Given the populations differences, KWC has the highest ratio of attendance to population of the 3 teams.

  16. #1416

    Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by pantherfan View Post
    I'm relatively new, and I don't mean to offend, but the ping-pong battle of your posts blows my mind. One day you talk about liking the team and seeing potential and giving them time to grow. Then your next post is 3 rants about how the program isn't where it should be and why it's no good. I stand by the fact that fans like you are not what the program needs, especially right now! They need nothing but support now. Not a disgruntled former student who isn't happy with current student attendance. Do you know what the first step in a rebuild is? To hire a quality coach, which I believe the administration has done. Given the numerous facility upgrades and recent coaching hires, there is zero doubt in my mind that KWC administration is invested in athletics and wants to be successful. I've said it before, but I speak as a former Wesleyan athlete. I understand the position of the kids on the team that are working their butts off to get to a point that fans like you can be proud.

    However, attendance does need to be worked on. The guy brought in, Greg Richard, is working on it, but quite frankly children playing musical chairs isn't the entertainment that puts butts in seats. They need to start offering incentive to students to be there, whether it's a free hot dog or maybe pizza or even a free t-shirt every now and then for all students that attend. That will get them there, and hopefully once they watch their classmates fight on the floor they will keep coming back. Not everyone loves basketball and students do have other obligations so I get that you wont have huge turnouts all the time. But, the student turnout for the Bellarmine game shows me they can get them there. In 2018, per the NCAA stats, KWC averaged 1,055 in attendance. That is not the days of glory, but that is not terrible. They are just outside the top 30, and with the program Cooper is working to build, they could very well climb back into that category. Just for comparison (and because I prefer to bring facts and numbers) here are the attendance averages for 2018 in the GMAC, which show that KWC still carries a significant home-court advantage.

    Findlay-1068
    KWC-1055
    Cedarville-901
    Alderson-647
    Walsh-594
    Hillsdale- 546
    Trevecca-469
    Ohio Dominican-441
    Malone- 401
    Davis and Elikins- 329
    Tiffin- 256
    Ohio Valley-237
    Lake Erie- 166

    And for additional comparison, Bellarmine averaged 1757 and USI averaged 1414. Given the populations differences, KWC has the highest ratio of attendance to population of the 3 teams.
    I was a student at KWC just 20 years ago ("just 20 years" ha!) and we packed the student section every game. It wasn't a "mandatory" brotherhood event for the fraternities, but all 3 always had more brothers there than not there. And a lot of them weren't sports guys, it was just a fun brotherhood event where we could get rowdy and have a good time supporting the school. We probably had more students at the games between semesters than the average game has today when the students are on campus. I don't know why the students don't care these days. My daughter is a freshman in the KWC music program and the band director won't even discuss having a pep band on a regular basis. He begrudgingly does one game a year, maybe two simply because the admin forces him to. It's really disappointing.

    And you're spot on about the musical chairs bit. I'd even take the 80 year old dude that comes in and shoots 3 pointers for halftime entertainment. Do SOMETHING that's actually entertaining! I'd like to know what ever happened to the airplane toss for pizza at halftime.

    As for ping-pong, well, you might as well get used to it. It does you no good to argue about it, believe me. Been there, done that, and have consciously decided not to bother in the future.

  17. Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    You make a good point. My teammates and I used to go to the games because it was free entertainment for some fund-strapped college boys. We enjoyed it, but the student turnout has gone down even since I was there just 10 years ago! As for the band, that's poor on their director's part. Another platform to showcase their passion should be a no-brainer! I always wondered why there wasn't a pep band when the school has an active music program.

    I'll heed the advice, and do appreciate it. Just hate to see people down on the team when it's clear Cooper is working to bring the program back to a program fans can be proud of.

  18. Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    Cedarville attendance is way down too. Cedarville's enrollment is probably about 1500 higher than when I was there and the average attendance at MBB games is probably at least 800 less. The days of 3000 fans appear to be long gone. The athletics website used to list the top attendance games at Callan. They don't list them anymore - I'm guessing because the lack of recent dates on the list made it embarrassing. The school used to do a good job of making it seem like you were attending something very relevant. I don't think they are able to do that any longer. Kids have more money, increased access to cars (allowing them to get off campus) and an endless supply of online media/entertainment/interaction. Overall, I think today's students are more aware of the bigger world out there and aren't as captivated by the campus bubble.

  19. #1419

    Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    College basketball attendance is down, period. KWC's attendance will increase with winning, but it is highly unlikely to get back to the glory days, regardless of how much winning and marketing they do. The reason attendance is down across the board is simple and obvious, there are a s%#t load of games on television.

    The only way that D2 basketball can stay even partly relevant in the eyes of fans is to pursue aggressive on line live broadcasting and get a small share of the "TV" market. The access must be free and revenue will have to come from advertisers.

  20. Default Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Knightmoves View Post
    College basketball attendance is down, period. KWC's attendance will increase with winning, but it is highly unlikely to get back to the glory days, regardless of how much winning and marketing they do. The reason attendance is down across the board is simple and obvious, there are a s%#t load of games on television.

    The only way that D2 basketball can stay even partly relevant in the eyes of fans is to pursue aggressive on line live broadcasting and get a small share of the "TV" market. The access must be free and revenue will have to come from advertisers.
    I agree that the D1 live games is a big contributor. Like I said above, CU used to do a great job of making our games feel relevant. That was much easier to do when there weren't so many nationally televised games every night. Back in the day, Ohio State, Dayton and Cincy usually weren't getting many of their games televised either. There was an apparent sameness across college basketball. Groups of people all over the county were gathered in gyms to watch college teams play in untelevised games. Now, with the plethora of live TV and steamed games out there, there is a more in-you-face media gap between D1 and everybody else; and small schools have a bigger hill to climb to fight for perceived relevance.

    It might sound counterintuitive that broadcasting your games on well-known platforms (like ESPN3) would help local attendance, but I absolutely think it would. It makes you feel like you are going to a relevant event if is being "televised" and at least an option on the ESPN app. I'm probably invoking a bit of a "fake it until you make it" mentality; but it seems like the next needed step to me. In my mind, schools and conferences should be willing to broadcast to a know/legit/accessible platform even if it comes at a slight financial loss.

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