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Thread: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

  1. #1
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    Default Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    Now we'll have 356 D-1 teams, of which 250 completely suck:

    http://www.midmajormadness.com/2017/...tic-conference

    D-1 is so watered down. Half the guys on these mid-major teams should be D2, or at least 1/4 of them. Heck, Washington State in the Pac-12 has some guys that not only shouldn't be Pac-12, they shouldn't be D-1, not even close.

    The NCAA is diluting their product. Most of these D-1's play in barns and average horribly. According to the latest stats, the D-1 average hoop attendance is 2,200. Yes, 2,200.

    I liked having CBU in D2 ... they'll soon join the ranks of Bakersfield in being completely irrelevant in athletics; same with Northern Colorado in football.

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    Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    Went to the Cal Baptist site- didn't find anything about this at all. Nothing on Twitter or Facebook about it. I thought that there was supposed to be an announcement.

    I saw the CBU women play in the Elite 8 in Sioux Falls two years ago. Pretty impressive.

    There are way too many D1 teams right now at 351. They could drop almost a hundred of these and they wouldn't be missed except as cannon fodder for the big boys.

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    Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    College Baseball Daily says that they will be joining in all sports (they don't have football- neither does the WAC). I saw somewhere that the announcement will be at 7:30 Eastern so in about a half an hour.

    http://www.collegebaseballdaily.com/...t-to-join-wac/

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    Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    The WAC Announcement will begin at 5:45 p.m. MT: http://wacsports.com/watch/

  5. #5

    Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    I think we're all looking forward to how much they pack their new arena for that first big rivalry game against Chicago State. Their entire D2 tenure, start to finish, will have been seven years.

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    Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    Yep, there is the invitation for 2018.

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    Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    Quote Originally Posted by SGAstumpJ View Post
    I think we're all looking forward to how much they pack their new arena for that first big rivalry game against Chicago State. Their entire D2 tenure, start to finish, will have been seven years.
    I think that Chicago State had about 73 freshmen this fall. Their debt is about on par with Haiti. I wonder if this isn't a preemptive move to fill in a member if CSU closes up.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    Quote Originally Posted by laker View Post
    Yep, there is the invitation for 2018.
    On the path to irrelevancy. Quick, tell me which religious school is killing it in D-1 hoops? Villanova (Catholic) but they're in a major conference.

    The NCAA needs to quit letting teams in and kicking some down. Some schools average 500 a game, that's a small school high school girls game.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    Quote Originally Posted by laker View Post
    I think that Chicago State had about 73 freshmen this fall. Their debt is about on par with Haiti. I wonder if this isn't a preemptive move to fill in a member if CSU closes up.
    ding ding ding! We have a winner!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    Quote Originally Posted by SGAstumpJ View Post
    ding ding ding! We have a winner!
    Chicago State, poster child for leaping too high. They could play D2/D3, have minimal travel expenses, get inner city Chicago kids who can't play D1 and probably win or come close to a D2 national title. Local media picks up on it, etc. (I realize the school might close.)

    If I was the CSU A.D., I would've gone D2 and tried to win national titles. No one cares about sucking in D-1.

  11. Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    Quote Originally Posted by tsull View Post
    On the path to irrelevancy. Quick, tell me which religious school is killing it in D-1 hoops? Villanova (Catholic) but they're in a major conference.

    The NCAA needs to quit letting teams in and kicking some down. Some schools average 500 a game, that's a small school high school girls game.

    I do not know what cbu will do with the move, hopefully they don't repeat some mistakes made by others. But there is actually a strong tradition of religious affiliated private schools doing well in hoops.

    Dayton, Davidson, La Salle, St. Joe's, St. Louis, Liberty, Valpo, Iona, Siena, Belmont, AND so on. My hope is cbu continues to fund and resource their teams well t is in my opinion they have done that well at D2 by the looks of it. Grand Canyon has made the move from pacWest to D1 pretty well, I mean they won 28 games last year or whatever, hopefully cbu can do the same. I am hesitant to say they are making a mistake, more happy for them than anything.

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    Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    I know that North Alabama is going to the ASUN in 2018, and Cal Baptist will be going WAC. I saw that UC-San Diego voted to go D1 but did the Big West ever approve of them as a member?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    Too many D-1 teams, just awful. I watch ball on TV, UCLA isn't even selling out with a great team this year, lots of empty seats. D-1 is not good on TV, no one is attending. A lot of GNAC/CCAA/PacWest teams on a given night would beat 50% or more of the D-1 mid-majors in this country. The Big Sky is awful, 28th out of 32 conferences in RPI, most teams 300 or lower.

    Most schools are playing to lose: They're hoping to make the NCAA tourney, get crushed and get $$$. Weird business model.

    I'm about winning on the national level, not about participation trophies.

    The NCAA needs to put stadium sizes/attendance requiements, and budgets to be D-1. Cal Baptist has nothing in common with Ohio State -- yet they're in the same division.

    * In typical fashion, WOU Twitter congratulates CBU on moving up. "Yay, ruin D2! Go Lancers!" God, I swear, I'm tired of D2 being the poor bastard of college athletics. Can't we pump up D2 instead of cheering those who leave? I don't get my alma mater a lot of the time, I really don't. We can't get a full football league so instead of working with basketball-only schools in adding football, we cheer for their exit out of D2. I'd rather have football and be D2 than be D1 without football.
    Last edited by tsull; 01-13-2017 at 10:28 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    Quote Originally Posted by tsull View Post
    Too many D-1 teams, just awful. I watch ball on TV, UCLA isn't even selling out with a great team this year, lots of empty seats. D-1 is not good on TV, no one is attending. A lot of GNAC/CCAA/PacWest teams on a given night would beat 50% or more of the D-1 mid-majors in this country. The Big Sky is awful, 28th out of 32 conferences in RPI, most teams 300 or lower.

    Most schools are playing to lose: They're hoping to make the NCAA tourney, get crushed and get $$$. Weird business model.

    I'm about winning on the national level, not about participation trophies.

    The NCAA needs to put stadium sizes/attendance requiements, and budgets to be D-1. Cal Baptist has nothing in common with Ohio State -- yet they're in the same division.

    * In typical fashion, WOU Twitter congratulates CBU on moving up. "Yay, ruin D2! Go Lancers!" God, I swear, I'm tired of D2 being the poor bastard of college athletics. Can't we pump up D2 instead of cheering those who leave? I don't get my alma mater a lot of the time, I really don't. We can't get a full football league so instead of working with basketball-only schools in adding football, we cheer for their exit out of D2. I'd rather have football and be D2 than be D1 without football.
    Agreed.

    Considerations:
    - Budget
    - Enrollment
    - Endowment
    - Academic Rating
    - Facilities
    - Support Structure
    - Town Population

  15. #15

    Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    Thanks, Brandon. I post on some other boards and I'm just amazed how many people think this is a good thing CBU is moving up. Ribbons for everyone. There is absolutely no incentive to be good in D-1 if one can just collect $$$ from pay day games. It's the worst model ever. It seems like everyone in this country would like 500 D-1 teams. No one has B.S. detectors anymore. D-1 hoops is a fraud, even the vaunted Big Dance is a fraud. I'd rather see it at 48 teams and get rid of the bad teams.

    My friend had a good idea: Your league has to be in the top 12 RPI to get a team in the NCAA tourney. There can be a few at-large teams, maybe 3 or 4. Make these programs work for it. There's no incentive to build arenas and sell tickets to those arenas. It's a huge fraud.

    I like the European soccer league model: You suck, you get sent to the lower league and you have to play your way up. The college hoops D-1 regular season means nothing now. D-2's regular season is more competitive, one has to get to the top 8 in the region to get to the touarney and that's tough. ESPN is talking about 11 ACC teams getting in. Where in society do you beat your chest, "We're number 11!"

    God, what a fraud.

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    Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    Quote Originally Posted by tsull View Post
    Thanks, Brandon. I post on some other boards and I'm just amazed how many people think this is a good thing CBU is moving up. Ribbons for everyone.
    The WAC may not be done. This article says that they want ten teams. I'm wondering who else might go there. It won't be a team with football.

    http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/spor...ment/96543586/

  17. #17

    Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    Quote Originally Posted by laker View Post
    The WAC may not be done. This article says that they want ten teams. I'm wondering who else might go there. It won't be a team with football.

    http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/spor...ment/96543586/
    Wonder if CBU is going to pay their coach $1M and build a new 6K/$200M arena? Or are they going to slug along with D2 facilities and salaries like the rest of mid-majors? Why do the Zags and Xavier win? Buckets of money and commitment to being Sweet 16/Elite 8 clubs in men's hoops. Gonzaga just received a $25M gift to build a basketball operations/practice facility. Their arena holds "only" 6,600 but it's plush and it's near impossible to get a seat. Mark Few's salary hasn't been disclosed, I've heard it's upwards of $3M (I lived 80 miles from Spokane, know what's going on there). Xavier also pays coaches that.

    If someone wants to go all-in -- like Boise State in football (I live in Boise) -- and crank up facilities, salaries, etc., have at it. If you're another crap-show with $100K salaries, tiny gyms, etc., just hoping to get a 16-seed in the tourney, sorry, you're worthless. Don't care if Grand Canyon won 28, 3/4's of that schedule was crap, they're going nowhere, neither is the rest of the WAC.

    There's no incentive for these A.D.'s to crank it up. They want to get to D-1 to get one shot on TV and make money. I'd guess 90 percent of D-1 A.D.'s have no intention of being a player on the national scene in men's hoops. Gonzaga, Xavier, and Butler, want to. Very few others do.

    Like Bakersfield, this is the last we'll hear from CBU.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    Totally agree that it's an arms race. You can't win at that level unless you pay to play. Grand Canyon has dropped some serious investments into their facilities and hired a big name with Thunder Dan Majerle. My guess is that they're gambling that Phoenix is ripe for another D1 program besides the ASU Sun Devils. But it's a long shot and they could be just another casualty of the lower rungs of D1 where 200 of the teams are basically cannon fodder for the rest of D1.

  19. Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    Quote Originally Posted by tsull View Post
    Wonder if CBU is going to pay their coach $1M and build a new 6K/$200M arena? Or are they going to slug along with D2 facilities and salaries like the rest of mid-majors? Why do the Zags and Xavier win? Buckets of money and commitment to being Sweet 16/Elite 8 clubs in men's hoops. Gonzaga just received a $25M gift to build a basketball operations/practice facility. Their arena holds "only" 6,600 but it's plush and it's near impossible to get a seat. Mark Few's salary hasn't been disclosed, I've heard it's upwards of $3M (I lived 80 miles from Spokane, know what's going on there). Xavier also pays coaches that.

    If someone wants to go all-in -- like Boise State in football (I live in Boise) -- and crank up facilities, salaries, etc., have at it. If you're another crap-show with $100K salaries, tiny gyms, etc., just hoping to get a 16-seed in the tourney, sorry, you're worthless. Don't care if Grand Canyon won 28, 3/4's of that schedule was crap, they're going nowhere, neither is the rest of the WAC.

    There's no incentive for these A.D.'s to crank it up. They want to get to D-1 to get one shot on TV and make money. I'd guess 90 percent of D-1 A.D.'s have no intention of being a player on the national scene in men's hoops. Gonzaga, Xavier, and Butler, want to. Very few others do.

    Like Bakersfield, this is the last we'll hear from CBU.

    !00% agree with you, if someone makes the move up and doesn't full fund, and resource the programs well it isn't worth it, as many people have pointed out look at Chicago State.As far as CBU ad hoops, they do have a 5200 seat arena opening in May of 2017, so in that regard they are doing what you were hoping they were.

  20. Default Re: Cal Baptist moving to D-1/WAC ... don't like it

    CBU's building a new stadium with a seating capacity basically equivalent to that of my small-town Indiana high school. It's right on the CBU campus, which is in a part of town for which parking is going to be an absolute nightmare.

    I'm a grad student at UC-Riverside, and our basketball games barely draw a thousand spectators--and this for a medium-large state university with tens of thousands of alumni in town and in the surrounding area, which "competes" (well, at least nominally...) in a conference entirely made up of other large state schools (Hawaii + a bunch of UCs and Cal States, most of which are themselves in Southern Californial).
    Last edited by Kurt M. Weber; 01-14-2017 at 08:05 PM.

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