Page 86 of 88 FirstFirst ... 367682838485868788 LastLast
Results 1,701 to 1,720 of 1754

Thread: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

  1. #1701
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    12,712
    Contribute to D2
    Rep Power
    188879

    Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbuseer View Post
    I agree. The two situations were different but it does not lessen the amazing accomplishment of both coaches. They each stand on their own merits! Although he hasn’t achieved sainthood like st crutch, Ben is well on his way to canonization! Lol
    While the 50 win in less than two year plateau is pretty impressive, I was being a little tounge in cheek on the "career winning %" one! There is a lot that can happen over the next three years to nock that down. Heck, if his winning % was .750 at five years, that would still rank him ahead of "Bravado Joe"!!!

    Not to belittle Crutch because his accomplishments at WLU are simply amazing! And yes, he did take over a team that won 4 games the year previous, but that year was an outlier. Basically, WLU was a 500'ish team for the 12 seasons leading up Crutch stepping in. That's certainly not good, but far from bad. Basically we were the Shepherd of that era...not good...not bad...just kind of - meh.
    Last edited by boatcapt; 03-05-2019 at 10:25 AM.

  2. #1702
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    12,712
    Rep Power
    188879

    Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    They signed him real late as I recall. Perhaps there was a reason he was still available. The JUCO recruiting game is like roulette.
    JUCO is like roulette! You can get some really good players who were overlooked...and then you can get players who had a real "reason" for playing JUCO!!!

    While we are just learning about this cat leaving the program, looks like he's been gone since right after the Glenville game on Feb 22 (last game he played in). His name was removed from the pre game notes after that game and his name has now been removed from the on-line team roster. Guess he wasn't happy getting 3 minutes in WLU's 98-77 blowout of Glenville!!!

    I know that almost every team has a player with the #1 jersey, but it just bothered me that he came in and took that number! I mean, you are a JUCO player who apparently few teams wanted and you come in LATE to one of the top DII programs in the nation and wear #1?? Maybe prove yourself a little before you do that??

  3. #1703

    Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    JUCO is like roulette! You can get some really good players who were overlooked...and then you can get players who had a real "reason" for playing JUCO!!!

    While we are just learning about this cat leaving the program, looks like he's been gone since right after the Glenville game on Feb 22 (last game he played in). His name was removed from the pre game notes after that game and his name has now been removed from the on-line team roster. Guess he wasn't happy getting 3 minutes in WLU's 98-77 blowout of Glenville!!!

    I know that almost every team has a player with the #1 jersey, but it just bothered me that he came in and took that number! I mean, you are a JUCO player who apparently few teams wanted and you come in LATE to one of the top DII programs in the nation and wear #1?? Maybe prove yourself a little before you do that??
    Well, WLU had an outgoing Watson who wore #1 last year. Maybe Ariel thought WLU put names on the jerseys and he was trying to save the equipment manager some work! ; )

  4. #1704
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    12,712
    Rep Power
    188879

    Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrub View Post
    Well, WLU had an outgoing Watson who wore #1 last year. Maybe Ariel thought WLU put names on the jerseys and he was trying to save the equipment manager some work! ; )
    Hahahahaha!! Maybe THAT's it!! Maybe Ben mixed up this years Watson's recruiting tape with Jordan Watson's and thought he could play D??!!

  5. #1705

    Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    WL is very systematic. JUCO imports are 'typically' more playground types. WL also loves to redshirt players and let them slowly work in to their roles. There's not always time to do that with transfers. Joe Lombardi is one of the only coaches I know who can convince incoming junior transfers to routinely redshirt. If you tell most they are going to redshirt they will just go somewhere else. Tossing a JUCO scorer in to the WL system is a big ask for most of those guys. JUCO ball is essentially AAU style.

    He obviously has some talent, size and speed. Sounds like it just wasn't a good fit from both ends. He won't have trouble finding a home somewhere. The quiting in late FEB part, however, is a big red flag (if that's indeed how it went down).

  6. #1706
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    12,712
    Rep Power
    188879

    Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    WLU doesn't bring in many JUCO's (Watson is the only one that comes to mind but there could be one or two others). Just my take is that with JUCO's, you get what you get. They don't seem to be very interested in being coached up.

    WLU does favor bring in HS players they can mold. Red shirting is not uncommon but they will give a true freshman the opportunity to start if they come in capable (Dave Dennis started as a TF and this year Yaehl Hill starts as a TF). WLU has also started relatively recently to bring in an occasional transfer...typically those are multi year guys but occasionally they are the one and done variety if there is a particular need.

    Heck, maybe Joe will bring him in. You guys seem to be in the market for WLU cast offs (Dyer and Humphreies)!! Given how WLU players perform when they leave WLU, that's not a bad recruiting strategy!!

  7. Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    WL is very systematic. JUCO imports are 'typically' more playground types. WL also loves to redshirt players and let them slowly work in to their roles. There's not always time to do that with transfers. Joe Lombardi is one of the only coaches I know who can convince incoming junior transfers to routinely redshirt. If you tell most they are going to redshirt they will just go somewhere else. Tossing a JUCO scorer in to the WL system is a big ask for most of those guys. JUCO ball is essentially AAU style.

    He obviously has some talent, size and speed. Sounds like it just wasn't a good fit from both ends. He won't have trouble finding a home somewhere. The quiting in late FEB part, however, is a big red flag (if that's indeed how it went down).
    I agree that he will probably land somewhere. IMHO, if he wants to play in Europe, he has to work on his understanding of team fundamentals as well as defense. I hope he will work on these skills at the next stop for him. A redshirt would have been great for him, but I wonder if his pride would not allow it.
    As I said before, I liked the guy and was hoping that he would quickly address the deficiencies in his game. Had he done so, he would have gotten major minutes in 1st or 2nd platoon.
    What puzzles me is how could such a player have been coached all these years without being taught a lick of defense? I mean, everything from his stance to his positioning on the court was worse than a middle school player.

  8. #1708
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    12,712
    Rep Power
    188879

    Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbuseer View Post
    I agree that he will probably land somewhere. IMHO, if he wants to play in Europe, he has to work on his understanding of team fundamentals as well as defense. I hope he will work on these skills at the next stop for him. A redshirt would have been great for him, but I wonder if his pride would not allow it.
    As I said before, I liked the guy and was hoping that he would quickly address the deficiencies in his game. Had he done so, he would have gotten major minutes in 1st or 2nd platoon.
    What puzzles me is how could such a player have been coached all these years without being taught a lick of defense? I mean, everything from his stance to his positioning on the court was worse than a middle school player.
    Three little letters...A A U. Seems like their mantra is "Can't spell NBA with defense!"

  9. Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    WLU doesn't bring in many JUCO's (Watson is the only one that comes to mind but there could be one or two others). Just my take is that with JUCO's, you get what you get. They don't seem to be very interested in being coached up.

    WLU does favor bring in HS players they can mold. Red shirting is not uncommon but they will give a true freshman the opportunity to start if they come in capable (Dave Dennis started as a TF and this year Yaehl Hill starts as a TF). WLU has also started relatively recently to bring in an occasional transfer...typically those are multi year guys but occasionally they are the one and done variety if there is a particular need.

    Heck, maybe Joe will bring him in. You guys seem to be in the market for WLU cast offs (Dyer and Humphreies)!! Given how WLU players perform when they leave WLU, that's not a bad recruiting strategy!!
    Good Points. Many players also need time to adapt to the level of effort that is required. It is a shock even for D1 transfers who thought they were playing hard to realize that they are not even close to playing with the level of effort that WL expects. Some never adjust enough to get major minutes.

  10. Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    Three little letters...A A U. Seems like their mantra is "Can't spell NBA with defense!"
    So True. Another issue with AAU seems to be there is little regard for committing turnovers. Extrapolating based on his minutes played, if Ariel had played 40 minutes he would have committed over 8 turnovers and committed 5.5 fouls!. I saw him throw a long pass downcourt into double coverage with a small window to Nate Allen that was Tom Brady-esque. Should never have been thrown. Nate only caught it because if the opposing guard had gone for the intercept, the collision with a man the size of Nate would have put him in the ER!

    There is a guy in Columbus who got MVP of the 270 Hoops league this fall. Unstoppable in a playground AAU game, averaging over 30 pts. I went to see him play a high school team, thinking that I would see a complete player dominate in a structured game. He was totally ineffective in a team offense and his defense was non-existent. Bad passes, turnovers. A much less talented team had their way with them.

    AAU is killing USA basketball (Kobe Bryant happens to agree. He thinks Euro players are superior now)

  11. #1711
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    12,712
    Rep Power
    188879

    Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbuseer View Post
    So True. Another issue with AAU seems to be there is little regard for committing turnovers. Extrapolating based on his minutes played, if Ariel had played 40 minutes he would have committed over 8 turnovers and committed 5.5 fouls!. I saw him throw a long pass downcourt into double coverage with a small window to Nate Allen that was Tom Brady-esque. Should never have been thrown. Nate only caught it because if the opposing guard had gone for the intercept, the collision with a man the size of Nate would have put him in the ER!

    There is a guy in Columbus who got MVP of the 270 Hoops league this fall. Unstoppable in a playground AAU game, averaging over 30 pts. I went to see him play a high school team, thinking that I would see a complete player dominate in a structured game. He was totally ineffective in a team offense and his defense was non-existent. Bad passes, turnovers. A much less talented team had their way with them.

    AAU is killing USA basketball (Kobe Bryant happens to agree. He thinks Euro players are superior now)
    Players LOVE them some scoring! Funny thing is that you CAN have it both ways. Just look at WLU...High scoring were every player is free to take an open shot (but is expected to pass the ball if the shot is not open) but is expected to play D. Counter pose how WLU plays against Glenville, a team that seems to really embrace the AAU "style" (jack up a lot of shots and play almost no defense). They can sure score at times but when faced with a team that can "score more" because they play smartly, not even close...WLU is 52 points better than Glenville.

  12. #1712
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    12,712
    Rep Power
    188879

    Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    So here we sit in the Regional Final again looking for our sixth Regional Title and trip to the Elite 8 in the last 10 years. Still plenty of basketball to be played Tuesday night vs a team that is the polar opposite of WLU in Mercyhurst. Hope the team is not thinking beyond Hurst because that could cost them big time! But as a fan, I can think beyond!!

    So what do make of this years WLU team? The first thought that comes to mind is young...second thought is "house money." We've talked about it several times over the year, but this years Topper squad is young as grass and as such, they were really built to make runs starting next season. The conventional wisdom heading into this season, at least for me, was that we would be a 7-8 loss team that would probably be a 7 or 8 seed. I wouldn't have been happy with that but given the youth on the team, I wouldn't have been disappointed either. As the season went by and the team started racking up impressive wins, I stated to recalibrate my expectations but still did not see them playing for a Regional Title. I started looking at them as a 4/5 or MAYBE a #3 seed who won a first round game but bowed out the next night.

    So what do I mean by "house money?" As I said, this team is really built to compete starting next year and then the year after that. This year was supposed to be a season when our young's learned how to play the college game and the team learned how to play together. Any success they had this year was unexpected and I think unplanned (well...unplanned by us fans). In that respect they are playing with house money. Problem with house money is eventually the house stops giving it to you! Will that be Tuesday night? Maybe. Will it be after they win the National Championship? Don't know!!

    So where does this years team fall in the pantheon of Topper teams? I'd put them on par with the 09/10 Toppers that finished as the Regional runner up. This was the year that future stars Faulk, Morrow and Hausfield got experience that resulted in a string of three Regional Titles.

  13. Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    So here we sit in the Regional Final again looking for our sixth Regional Title and trip to the Elite 8 in the last 10 years. Still plenty of basketball to be played Tuesday night vs a team that is the polar opposite of WLU in Mercyhurst. Hope the team is not thinking beyond Hurst because that could cost them big time! But as a fan, I can think beyond!!

    So what do make of this years WLU team? The first thought that comes to mind is young...second thought is "house money." We've talked about it several times over the year, but this years Topper squad is young as grass and as such, they were really built to make runs starting next season. The conventional wisdom heading into this season, at least for me, was that we would be a 7-8 loss team that would probably be a 7 or 8 seed. I wouldn't have been happy with that but given the youth on the team, I wouldn't have been disappointed either. As the season went by and the team started racking up impressive wins, I stated to recalibrate my expectations but still did not see them playing for a Regional Title. I started looking at them as a 4/5 or MAYBE a #3 seed who won a first round game but bowed out the next night.

    So what do I mean by "house money?" As I said, this team is really built to compete starting next year and then the year after that. This year was supposed to be a season when our young's learned how to play the college game and the team learned how to play together. Any success they had this year was unexpected and I think unplanned (well...unplanned by us fans). In that respect they are playing with house money. Problem with house money is eventually the house stops giving it to you! Will that be Tuesday night? Maybe. Will it be after they win the National Championship? Don't know!!

    So where does this years team fall in the pantheon of Topper teams? I'd put them on par with the 09/10 Toppers that finished as the Regional runner up. This was the year that future stars Faulk, Morrow and Hausfield got experience that resulted in a string of three Regional Titles.
    Great points. Some other observations:
    1) without Evan French coming back from 2 horrific knee injuries we likely would not have won against esu. 2-time academic all American, sr, he could not even play until Jan. Arguably best shooter on team even on one leg he was huge boost to shooting of second platoon. Most players would have hung it up and gone on with their career plans.
    2) Brady Arnold coming back from aggressive chemo for non Hodgkin lymphoma to play at all, which is miraculous.
    3) big e lost 15 lbs before the sr season and developed his game dramatically through the increased quickness.
    4) Tyler primmer took his 3 pt shot to another level and increased aggressiveness on dribble drive.

    5) Nate Allen stepped up defensively and was effective guarding both inside and outside to disrupt 3 point shooters. He was also a warrior on the boards! Now if he put more arch on his shot to increase its accuracy!

    Finally, this is the best shooting wl team in the last 8 years at least. Almost 44% from 3 and 79% foul shooting. Ten player have an effective fg shooting % of 57% or greater. Six players shoot over 60.7%! ( nba’s curry shoots 60.7%, albeit from greater distance).

  14. #1714
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Upper Frog Hollow, WV
    Posts
    1,745
    Rep Power
    1055

    Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    Good post! Do we sign another recruit or two?

  15. #1715
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    12,712
    Rep Power
    188879

    Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Sportsnut View Post
    Good post! Do we sign another recruit or two?
    We've got three already coming in who are supposed to be top notch. With them we have 12 players under "contract" for next year and Ben has gone with 14 or 15 in his two years so it wouldn't surprise me if a couple more come in. Maybe a long term D1 transfer and/or a last minute decomit from another team.

  16. #1716
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Upper Frog Hollow, WV
    Posts
    1,745
    Rep Power
    1055

    Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    OK, let me see if I have this correct.

    15 were on team (counting Boswell)
    -1 (Watson) left team ?
    -5 seniors (Allen, Arnold, Primmer, French, and Meininger)
    +3 recruits committed (Hazelbaker 6-7, Butler 6-4 and Conley 6-0)
    -------
    12 Remaining. Usually always has the full 13 plus one or two redshirted. That would possibly leave 1-3 more that could be signed. In addition
    someone like Saban who get very little playing time might transfer if history repeats itself. Maybe 4 more recruits is possible.
    Does this sound right?

  17. Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    I think winning tomorrow would be huge for future success. Getting the younger guys experience playing in the Elite 8 would be HUGE.

  18. Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Sportsnut View Post
    Good post! Do we sign another recruit or two?
    Good question. If we could find a 6-8 man who can pass and shoot like big E! Please forward this to all your friends in Serbia, Croatia, Russia, Mali, Spain, etc. —- anyone whose Development has not been stunted by aau ball. People who can only dunk or dribble drive and need to have the Rock need not apply.

  19. Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by boatcapt View Post
    We've got three already coming in who are supposed to be top notch. With them we have 12 players under "contract" for next year and Ben has gone with 14 or 15 in his two years so it wouldn't surprise me if a couple more come in. Maybe a long term D1 transfer and/or a last minute decomit from another team.
    Have watched hazelbaker and Conley several times in person. Both have high motors and high basketball iqs and complete games. Play unselfishly even though they are best player on team. Imho both may redshirt to get stronger for college game. But they could very well surprise in open gym.

  20. Default Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    After Watson left there are 12 that dress and 2 red shirts, one that sits on the bench and one that is not allowed. 14 total, minus 5 seniors, plus 3 signed recruits equals 12 so far for next year. Is that correct?

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •